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James Jaeger Profile
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


Continue on to Earth 2.1




Last edited by James Jaeger, 12/1/2021, 1:52 pm
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Papa Guinea Pig Profile
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posticon Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


LOL we could do what happened here on Earth and blotch out the sky. :)

Come back to it later?

Maybe that is what SAI God did for us?

Last edited by Papa Guinea Pig, 12/1/2021, 2:21 pm
12/1/2021, 2:14 pm Link to this post PM Papa Guinea Pig Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


James, you are probably aware of the tremendous precautions NASA has undertaken to keep from contaminating alien ecosystems. They won't let a probe get close to Europa and Enceladus for fear of cross-contamination.

Think how sad it would be if we discovered an alien world with an ecosystem, we cavalierly attempted to merge our ecosystems and the ecosystem we discover gets wiped out?

I will never forgive the Spanish conquistadors who came to America and wiped out the emerging civilizations that were here. It was a remarkable opportunity to study emerging civilizations, and all they could see was gold. I am certain we will not make a similar mistake extra terrestrially.

As for colonizing a new gravity well, what an odd thing to do! It would be equivalent to digging a deep hole in the earth and building a city at the bottom. Seriously, it would be identical. As creatures that live at the bottom of a hole, we do not get that yet. In time, it will be obvious to everyone.
12/1/2021, 2:28 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
James Jaeger Profile
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


>James, you are probably aware of the tremendous precautions NASA has undertaken to keep from contaminating alien ecosystems.

I am not aware of the details. Again Robert Zubrin has addressed this and says it's quite unlikely alien organisms could interact with each other. UNLESS, as I have tried to point out they had some common genesis.(1)

>They won't let a probe get close to Europa and Enceladus for fear of cross-contamination.

Well I'm all for erring on the side of caution.

>Think how sad it would be if we discovered an alien world with an ecosystem, we cavalierly attempted to merge our ecosystems and the ecosystem we discover gets wiped out?

Yes, I agree. It would be unforgivable.

>I will never forgive the Spanish conquistadors who came to America and wiped out the emerging civilizations that were here. It was a remarkable opportunity to study emerging civilizations, and all they could see was gold. I am certain we will not make a similar mistake extra terrestrially.

They had no idea about the affects of mixing biology back then.

>As for colonizing a new gravity well, what an odd thing to do! It would be equivalent to digging a deep hole in the earth and building a city at the bottom. Seriously, it would be identical. As creatures that live at the bottom of a hole, we do not get that yet. In time, it will be obvious to everyone.

If you build a rotating wheel using conventional physics, you will have to have fake gravity and this "gravity" is quite weird as it's not uniform. The better approach, if you insist on avoiding gravity wells, might be to get Superinteligent AI to invent methods of anti-gravity after or before it's working on Superluminary transport.


------------------------
(1) Zubrin on Mars. Not sure which one he discusses contamination but I know he discusses it.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robert+zubrin+on+contaminating+mars


Last edited by James Jaeger, 12/1/2021, 3:24 pm
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


12/1/2021, 3:25 pm Link to this post PM James Jaeger Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


quote:

If you build a rotating wheel using conventional physics, you will have to have fake gravity and this "gravity" is quite weird as it's not uniform.


In a large wheel station, on a given level, the gravity would be absolutely uniform. It would be indistinguishable from living on earth. If the station was large enough, even birds flying at altitude would not notice a difference. The advantage would be that one could get into and out of the spun-up wheel with no net energy expense and little complication. Probably, people would come and go by taking an elevator to the central hub. The elevator would be counter balanced from the other side, so that it would require no net energy expense. However, even landing on the wheel would require only momentary acceleration to one g. Taking off would be like dropping from the bomb bay of an airplane.

Trust me, once we are building large wheel stations, no one will bother to colonize exoplanets. Since travelling there would probably require the use of a large wheel station, we may safely assume that it is a moot consideration.
12/1/2021, 5:14 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


>Relativity is only a current theory.<

Yes but it really deserves to be called a THEORY. The reason why is because it has been subjected to a great many experiments and a great many observations have been made, and Relativity theory has never flunked these verifications. So we know this theory is valid, and we therefore know of physical reasons why FTL is not possible. If you try to go faster than light, the mass of that object rises to infinity and it’s just impossible to go any faster.

Science fiction may make use of ‘warp drives’ and stuff like that, but all this is borrowed from the decidedly dodgy mainstream cosmology, where science went off the rails into mathematical mysticism. You are better off betting superintelligences think ‘20th/ 21st mainstream cosmology is BS!’ Rather than ‘FTL is possible’.
12/2/2021, 12:47 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


FTL is roughly equivalent to an exception to Fermat's Last Theorem. It is not merely impossible. It is meaningless.

I suspect, however, that spiritual forces are capable of FTL, and I highlight that concept here:

Bound for Glory
12/2/2021, 2:06 am Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


You know, it occurred to me that if you were an SAI, you would have a way of ‘instantaneously’ crossing any distance, all without having to go ‘FTL’.

Instead of building a spaceship, you instead construct for yourself a ‘starwhisp’ (this is term made by by Charles Stross, I believe). This is a tiny machine, perhaps no bigger than a grain of salt, that is packed with computronium and nanobots whose sole purpose in life is to carry out repairs as and when needed.

You then download or copy your intelligence into the computronium, set your destination (the centre of the galaxy, let’s say). Then, you halt the information processing that is ‘you’, and arrange things so that these patterns will be re-instated once you arrive at your destination. This way, the 50 million years or whatever it takes to reach your destination goes by in a subjective instant.

Would an SAI be interested in earthlike planets? What it really needs is matter arranged to maximise information storage and processing, and we already know from the physics of computation that organic matter is far from optimal. In fact, according to Kurzweil, a human brain is closer to a rock of similar mass, in terms of is computing ability, than ‘computronium’.

Also, it could well be that conscious life is exceedingly rare, and in fact may exist on only one planet. An SAI may decide such uniqueness is worth preserving, so it would not want to turn life-supporting systems into matryoshka brains. It would instead send its seed to lifeless systems, and convert all that wasteful matter and energy into forms sublimely capable of storing and processing information, building trillions of glorious virtual worlds and other feats I cannot even imagine with my puny meatbrain.

On the other hand, it could discover that Spiko is wrong and consciousness can be ‘downloaded’ onto other substrates, in which case we might fall asleep one day, and wake the next believing this is the same routine we have followed all our lives, unaware that we are now software living on a virtual earth, with our old solar system turned into something more useful for doing computation!
12/2/2021, 5:21 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
James Jaeger Profile
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Re: EARTH 2.0 - Psychological & Physical Program to Getting There


>In a large wheel station, on a given level, the gravity would be absolutely uniform. It would be indistinguishable from living on earth.

Ok, cool. I have not studied these things as much as you.

>If the station was large enough, even birds flying at altitude would not notice a difference.

Hey, we need nappy birds.

>The advantage would be that one could get into and out of the spun-up wheel with no net energy expense and little complication.

Cool.

>Probably, people would come and go by taking an elevator to the central hub. The elevator would be counter balanced from the other side, so that it would require no net energy expense. However, even landing on the wheel would require only momentary acceleration to one g. Taking off would be like dropping from the bomb bay of an airplane.

OK. Hey I have nothing against building these as well as pace elevators. But exploring planets should also prove exciting.

>Trust me, once we are building large wheel stations, no one will bother to colonize exoplanets. Since travelling there would probably require the use of a large wheel station, we may safely assume that it is a moot consideration.

I say do both and we'll see what becomes most popular. Building a large wheel in Earth orbit should be a must-do project. It would probably be easier than figuring out Superluminary travel or Superinteligent AI.

Everyone out there, from Ray to Musk, says we are going to be building Superinteligent AI. All I'm saying is WHY? If we don't build it as a tool to solve certain problem, what's the purpose for building it in the first place. I don't see see Superintelligent AI as an end, I see it only as a means, a means to accomplish certain human-desired ends. A means to solve hard problems.

If we can't solve hard problems and use SAI to accomplish improved human conditions, there is NO point to building it. There is no point to risking it. Of course, any SAI that's can't even solve Superlumiary travel is probably little risk as it would not be that powerful. The one thing we do NOT want to build is SAI that's powerful enough to be a threat to humanity, yet too stupid to invent Superluminary transport. Then we would have a semi-intelligent giant that can't do anything really useful for us to offset the risk.
12/2/2021, 2:12 pm Link to this post PM James Jaeger Blog
 


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