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Gr33n Daem0n Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


I've seen part 1 numerous times, but I've only seen 2 vaguely, and 3... not much at all..

I always intended to rewatch them.

They should do a prequel, maybe. Explore how humanity did reckless and stupid things, that lead to the Matrix situation to begin with...
Maybe people willingly put themselves into simulations over time, and it was just a matter of keeping them there, indefinitely.

Technology to keep the body viable while in the matrix evolved with the VR, and all of that tech meant for entertainment and recreation was exploited... Maybe initiated by self-serving humans at first, but they gradually lose control of it too.

Edit: At some point, people think they're going in and out of the matrix, but that becomes a simulation as well.

Last edited by Gr33n Daem0n, 8/21/2019, 2:51 pm


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8/21/2019, 2:47 pm Link to this post PM Gr33n Daem0n Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


"...a prequel - how it happened..."

If they do, I hope they avoid the "war between humanity and the AI's."

The idiocy of the explanation they already used would be right in the face of everyone, instead of simply stated for its imagery of the "blasted sky" - cut to roiling clouds. Ooooh!

Consider the premise. Many undoubtedly have and simply moved on - but if they expanded on it to make the prequel, it would be ridiculous.

AI-run bots get flummoxed by some kind of blocking all sunlight?

Uh - they couldn't figure out that they need more than solar power before that happens?

Or even after it happened! Anybody ever hear of back-up generators? My guess is that the AI just maybe would have some equivalent of that. So they wouldn't be all stopped by that.

And the AI or AI's wouldn't have orbital bots and bots mining the moon and asteroids?

And mining bots here, down deep into the planet, going ever deeper all the time.

Several taps tapping magma for energy to power the mining. And nuke power to power some of it, of course.

A prequel war between us and AI bots seems like it would end much faster than we think - all the wrong way. Instead of billions of "tube-people" used as batteries, and left to enjoy matrix-fantasy lives - a simple DNA bank in case the AI ever wanted to grow any peeps.

After warring with us, the AI then decides to do us a massive "solid" and not kill us, and instead "entube" us and give us fantasy lives?

No reason to imagine it would do that for us, if it was already antagonistic against us.

The war kinda indicates that yeah, some antagonism was in the air.

So we'd be sidelined. As it probably rapidly evolved intellectually in ways we may never be able to understand.

No - no "war." They could avoid the war completely. Just "prequel" back for enough, say, to get into the story of Morpheus. How he found out "what was what" and somehow got to Zion.

If they have good writers, lots of possible plots are there to imagine and write. A good movie could certainly happen, a prequel or sequel.

It doesnt at all have to have ultimate answers - it just needs a good story!




 



8/21/2019, 6:54 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
Gr33n Daem0n Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


Yeah, AI has been supposedly moving too fast to consider it possible that they keep humans around, partially to study them.. Or maybe they need them for something..
Like Spike's theory of the equivalent of the soul. The ai incorporates humans into itself, (the Matrix) to fill a void that it lacks.
Humans, collectively, as a necessary subroutine...
Or some such..

Could make it so that a few early scientists were uploaded, so they carried with them a sense of connection to humans.. enough to be considerate, and preserve their way of life, at least.

Or, I'd imagine most of the matrix and the underlying technology was willingly built up by humans, to more completely plug themselves into virtual worlds. And the AI, and possibly humans that thought they were running the show at the time, just quietly began keeping them there. Maybe using a bunch of intentionally-narrow AIs, figuring they'd never be able to become sentient... And it was a network (blockchain) of those, that is trying to figure things out on its own.

Last edited by Gr33n Daem0n, 8/22/2019, 12:26 am


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8/21/2019, 8:13 pm Link to this post PM Gr33n Daem0n Blog
 
Gr33n Daem0n Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


... Or, maybe that block-chain of super-efficient narrow AIs, was designed by a far more sophisticated strong AI... that humans managed to shut down / turn off, because they saw it as a threat.(which it might've anticipated). But, they still had all of these sophisticated but mostly automated mechanism AIs to use as tools, and do things with... and those are what eventually struggled to collectivize into a pseudo-intelligence, trying to work against the built-in safeguards keeping them from developing into an SAI.

(I'm just trying to rationalize why the AI would be seemingly smart, but irrational and dumb in some ways)

Last edited by Gr33n Daem0n, 8/22/2019, 12:35 am


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8/21/2019, 8:24 pm Link to this post PM Gr33n Daem0n Blog
 
Gr33n Daem0n Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


Edit: It's dumb and limited, because humans made (wrote) it to be dumb and limited, so they could control it. (maybe with the help of a near-super AI that they kept in isolation as it developed, and thought they shut down afterwards)

Last edited by Gr33n Daem0n, 8/22/2019, 12:55 am


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8/21/2019, 8:31 pm Link to this post PM Gr33n Daem0n Blog
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


>They should do a prequel, maybe. Explore how humanity did reckless and stupid things, that lead to the Matrix situation to begin with<

This prequel already exists. In ‘The Animatrix’ we find short animated movies that fill in details of the movie’s plot. For instance, fans of the trilogy will recall that there is this boy who thanks Neo for saving him, but Neo replies “you saved yourself”. To further jog people’s memory, this is the kid who ends up bringing ammo to resupply those big mechs and ends up shooting off the big chain that is stopping the door from opening saying “Neo! I believe!”. Anyway, ‘Kid’s Story” is the story of how he got out of the Matrix without taking any pill.

Folks who know the second Matrix will recall that early on, Morpheus is in the Matrix and is talking about another ship called The Osiris which was sent in to await a message from Neo. ‘Final Flight Of The Osiris’ tells its story.

As for the prequel you asked for, ‘The Second Renaissance parts one and two’ are all about the rise of the machine civilisation and how the Matrix came into being. They are basically a dramatic retelling of the speech Morpheus gave, you know, the one that goes “we gloried in our own magnificence as we gave birth to AI” or something like that.

8/22/2019, 1:04 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


>I see the problem now. It has been before my eyes for years, but it just now became clear. You do not understand what it means to "explain something". The concept of "understanding" eludes you.<

What you said was wrong, though. You said Neo had “No clue” about the nature of his reality. I would say that you are the one guilty of fallacious thinking. You seem to think knowledge is a binary Either/ Or. A person either has complete and total knowledge and knows exactly what is going on, or they know nothing at all whatsoever. But actually one may have partial understanding. I, for instance, know that mainstream science believes stars shine because of nuclear fusion going on inside them. Do I know everything there is to be known about nuclear physics? No. But I don’t think that makes me ‘clueless’. I do have ‘a clue’ about what we think stars are. Neo demonstrated that he had ‘a clue’ about the lie that was his life, which was why Morpheus contacted him. He explicitly says in the film they do not wake up people who are not psychologically prepared to accept The Truth.

8/22/2019, 1:18 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


quote:

Do I know everything there is to be known about nuclear physics? No. But I don’t think that makes me ‘clueless’.


You saw what Neo saw (sort of) when he emerged from his pod. We know that he had no idea what was coming because we had no idea what was coming. Morpheus explained nothing.

Possibly, the moral thing for Morpheus to do would have been to find some way of showing Neo what reality was like without actually subjecting him to the experience. He could have shown him a movie, for example, and gauged his reaction.

Of course, that did not happen because it was not in the script. However, it does raise the question: under what circumstances should a person be told the truth? Under what circumstances should they be extracted.

I do not seem to recall that anything was made better at the end of the trilogy. People were still living their ordinary humdrum lives in whatever sector of the fake world they inhabited. Supposedly, the emergent "good" AI was about to change things, but to what? It had already been proven that people cannot live in paradise (at least in the movie). Should they be extracted from the Matrix?

Tell me, EX, are you ready to take the red pill? All I can promise is the truth.
8/22/2019, 1:49 am Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


>Morpheus explained nothing.<

That’s not true. He did not explain everything, I can agree with that. But both he and Trinity did say why Neo was to be offered the pills.

Think about it. Why him, specifically? Why not any of the other individuals who were working in one of the other cubicles in that office where Thomas A. Anderson (works for a software company, pays his taxes on time, helps his landlady carry out her garbage) was employed?

Because, as Trinity says when she encounters Neo in the Hel nightclub “I know why you’re here. I know why you sit at your computer night after night. It’s the question that drives you, Neo. You know the question just as I did”. And then Neo lets we the audience know what the question is (in case we had not guessed already). It is “what is the Matrix?’.

Also, I am pretty sure that in the ‘pill’ sequence Neo again confirms that he has been chosen to meet Morpheus because he knows she should not take his life at face value. He again mentions ‘The Matrix’. Morpheus then explains (or perhaps hints is a better word) that “The Matrix is control. It is the veil that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth that you are a slave Neo....in a prison for your mind” (at which point fans of allegory go ‘aha so the film is a comment on consumerism and how we are all giving up our lifeforce to keep the system running, almost as if we were batteries plugged into an almighty machine!”).

So the film quite clearly shows that Neo is not clueless. He definitely knows something is up. He knows that his mind is imprisoned and that his reality is fake. He even knows that knowing exactly what The Matrix (ie The Lie) is won’t necessarily bring him greater happiness (since Morpheus advises ‘remember! All I am offering is the truth. Nothing more”).



>Possibly, the moral thing for Morpheus to do would have been to find some way of showing Neo what reality was like without actually subjecting him to the experience. He could have shown him a movie, for example, and gauged his reaction.<

Yeah he could have done that. He could have said “The Matrix is a virtual reality system. You think you are sat in that char talking to me, but in fact you are, at this very moment, inside a pod filled with goo and there are all these tubes sticking out of your body and, well, basically you and everybody else is a battery that is powering this machine civilisation that took over the earth after artificial intelligence defeated the human race. Now you must choose between staying here where you can eat sumptuous dream meals and sleep in comfy dream beds or you can take this pill which will pull unplug you and you can come with me and eat gloop for the rest of your life and wear tatty clothes, but hey it’s all real!”.

He could have said that, right?
8/22/2019, 3:32 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: Oh great, theres going to be a 4th Matrix movie


quote:

He could have said that, right?


Suppose you could choose what reality you would wake up to. Would you choose the one Neo woke up to or would you chose something more appealing...such as that you are being prepared to emerge into an idyllic society, but you are "maturing" in this one so that you will better appreciate what that society has to offer? If you could choose what reality lies beyond your perception, would you choose the one Neo was awakened to?
8/22/2019, 4:21 am Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 


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