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Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Registered: 12-2017
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Re: How the American Dream turned into Greed and Inequality World Economic Forum


>To solve inequality I believe we need a decentralized technology solution like urgent care. this can only happen within capitalism<

Yes but it is Peter Joseph’s point that the capitalist drive toward ephemeralisation (‘doing more with less’) which is then countered with all the tricks to perpetuate scarcity that I outlined earlier, could instead be used to make a paradigm shift to a new system.

In other words, just as capitalism was built on a foundation of communism (try running a business where everybody applies the profit motive for all needs no matter how great, and all abilities no matter how small, and you will soon see how vital ‘from each according to their ability, to each according to their need is to business’) capitalism has built the foundations upon which another superior form of resource management will be built. If it is not built, the biosphere will collapse from resource overuse (unless heading off into space can perpetuate the consumer culture).
2/23/2018, 9:03 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: How the American Dream turned into Greed and Inequality World Economic Forum


Hmmm. I dont think this is a completely unfair paraphrase, Extro:

"The planet is effectively finite, and practically speaking, continual tech and lifestyle growth worldwide toward the Western world "standard" would very probably burn out the planet - oh, I guess unless we go up yonder."

OK, some doubt exists on extending what some even today see as the "wrong" of capitalism into space.

Lets leave the ideal and look at something from the real that we can agree on.

That is that those from the developing and undeveloped world who flock to the Western World want stuff they think is to be had in it. Thats hardly a debate.

Also that the developing and undeveloped world have developed world aid folks trying to help peeps in both types of poorer countries to develop businesses and improve their public health systems, among other aid programs.

China is now doing that in Africa in a much more money intensive way, as opposed to with arms and political cadres as they stuck to in the past.

I guess we could just tell those who stay in developing countries and are trying to get to our level: "Suck it up. The planets ecological quality would suffer too much, so we can't afford for you to have more. And the "first world" aint gonna give up any more charity for you than we already are right now.

But good news - we'll issue you new slippers and coveralls each year, and regular air drops of water bottles and soy chips."

We could do that, in a much more definite way than we can imagine setting up some kind of worldwide equalization distribution system to really try to provide all that people need at some level.

Thats kind of what you describe as possible several decades ago. The voters in most countries dont want to give up their own money or benefits - not enough to pay for what that would cost. So its not at all practical now.

Neither is the "suck it up" option. Our attitudes wouldn't support either that kind of hard talk, or even the much smaller cost of that.

Yet as the years march on, and imagining greater development and projects starting that would be very destructive ecologically - massively so - and clearly probably going to be planned because a given developing country wants to get richer - who can say?

So I suggest that going "up and out" should be looked at from the perspective of people all over the world wanting that lifestyle. Cars, houses, apartments, clothes, food, stores - the lifestyle they see on todays TV and internet and DVD's from now to decades ago.

Look at the developing world. Some countries that have first world developement, developing world areas, and stark divisions of extraordinarily poor.

Do they all turn into todays Venezuala and have some political elite arm and favor some of the poor to repress the rest?

That may look pretty compared to what could come, if we dont proceed where Elon, "Virgin Galactic," Boeing, Arianespace SA and the Chinese - even Putin - are headed.

We go that way, we may be able to keep up with the hunger for "the life" to a degree.

Probably to a greater degree than if we dont.

No question - get up there so that we can develop space industries and thus afford more for the more peeps that need it, and the more tomorrow that will.
2/23/2018, 9:26 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: How the American Dream turned into Greed and Inequality World Economic Forum


Hi Doc.

I suppose I should bare in mind that predictions of forthcoming environmental apocalypse due to human activity are not exactly new. In fact, such doommongering has been going on for generations. Somehow, though, we find ourselves enjoying more prosperity overall than our ancestors.

Why is this? The reason why is because all those prophecies of doom are based on what happens if we carry on as usual. But, thanks to technological change, we tend not to carry on as usual. Thanks to technological change, the question of how ‘finite’ our resources are becomes much more difficult to answer. By recombining our resources, by finding ways of making good use of what was once waste, and other innovations, we effectively discover new resources with which to solve our problems (while creating new ones for which solutions need to be found).

Let’s look at a real-life example. It is said that if Bitcoin were to become the main monetary system for the world, the energy it would require would be more than the world can produce right now. This would seem to imply that either Bitcoin is doomed or the world is. But the technological capability that Bitcoin pioneered (which goes by various names like MOIP of ‘Money Over Internet Protocal’, or Decentralised Ledger Technology’) now has a new method, other than blockchain technology, for allowing peer to peer payment and transfer of assets. It is called Hashgraph, and apparently it is way faster while using a fraction of the energy blockchain tech requires.

Also, does the fact that capitalism requires perpetual growth necessarily mean consumption of natural resources must increase? I am not sure it does. A recent BBC nature documentary about the oceans revealed a serious problem of plastic pollution and this seems to have sparked a movement from politicians, consumers, and business alike to reduce the use of plastic as much as possible. Growth’ could refer to the growth of ideas or some other none-zero sum thing that can expand without limit while making life better rather than worse.
2/24/2018, 2:30 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
Animecat Profile
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Re: How the American Dream turned into Greed and Inequality World Economic Forum


99 percent of oil is burned as gasoline. oil as product and sea garbage is less a problem extropia. But Elon will save us from a transportations collapse (burns all oil) killing 2-3 billion. with solar storage. Oil can then be used to make 100 times the products we have now. This will eliminate poverty by making a one dollar product become one penny. If oil was not burned 99 percent of it.

Last edited by Animecat, 2/24/2018, 8:25 am
2/24/2018, 8:23 am Link to this post  
 


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