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James Jaeger Profile
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TAX RETURNS -- Unreasonable Searches and Seizures?


No one -- including President Trump -- should have to disclose their tax "papers" per the Fourth Amendment. It's unwarranted "search and seizure" for a citizen to have to reveal his most personal papers to the state -- especially a police and surveillance state, if this is what we have now per whistle blowers like Snowden and Assange.

I am not just saying this to "justify" Trump's actions. You can see me discussing this long before Trump walked down the escalator.

Almost all business can zero out their taxes legitimately but this does not give the state the right to search and seize.

Even though Trump is defying a long-established tradition of presidents -- even wealthy presidents like Kennedy disclosing their returns -- this does not make it right. No doubt all these presidents felt it wasn't fundamentally right either.

The state can find fault with any citizen it wants as it has unlimited resources to hire lawyers and tax accountants to dig for dirt. I'm sure the Founders were sensitive to this. Back in the founding years they didn't have income tax returns -- they had "papers" -- so this is what they referred to as part of the cit's privacy of "papers and effects."

Give the import of the Fourth on privacy of papers, I it's unconsitutional for a "law" to be passed that allows the government to search and seize a citizen's papers.

Here's exactly what the 4th Amendment says:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Ergo, Trump, and any citizen, has the "right ... to be secure in [his] person, house, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures [by the state].

A tax return is a "paper" and an "effect." To search or seize a citizen's or president's tax return papers because a competing political party wants to find the inevitable 5% errors and omissions (dirt) in those papers and effects is "unreasonable" therefore a violation of the 4th Amendment.

The "tradition" of the state ceasing the papers of citizens on the grounds that it wants to make sure they are paying an arguably illegal income tax is Orwellian and has no place in a free society.

Last edited by James Jaeger, 4/16/2019, 2:16 pm
4/16/2019, 1:57 pm Link to this post PM James Jaeger Blog
 
James Jaeger Profile
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Re: TAX RETURNS -- Unreasonable Searches and Seizures?


I guess no one here pays taxes...
4/17/2019, 10:15 pm Link to this post PM James Jaeger Blog
 
richiemobile Profile
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Re: TAX RETURNS -- Unreasonable Searches and Seizures?


JJ

Since income taxes have been in place for about a century and one of the preeminent cliches in our civilization is ‘ there are two things you can’t escape death and taxes’. Most folks in here are more interested Iin the former
Just sayin


Sometimes you seem kinda Don Quixote-Esque.

Last edited by richiemobile, 4/18/2019, 6:20 am
4/18/2019, 6:18 am Link to this post PM richiemobile Blog
 
Tombstone1881 Profile
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Re: TAX RETURNS -- Unreasonable Searches and Seizures?


Republican administration corruption in 1924 lead to creating laws that NOBODY, including the president can keep such finances secret.

Trump has until April 23rd to release has taxes, or Mnuchin could face 5 years in prison. Trump can only hide behind Mnuchin for 5 more days.

---
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why is it that not one of the Republican officeholders objecting to Biden's victory have objected to their own wins on the same day on the same ballots using the same election systems??!
4/18/2019, 6:52 am Link to this post PM Tombstone1881
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Re: TAX RETURNS -- Unreasonable Searches and Seizures?


James,

"I guess no one here pays taxes..."

Just a few days ago, I hit the tax issue on another of your posts. Taxes have been an interest of mine for many decades. Not out of need, though. I didn't pay much at all most of my life due to low earnings and low equity holdings.

The Dems and the other Lefties among us probably stay out of it because, for many of them, it's the norm to buy into the "big gov" paradigm.

That includes overtly, publicly accepting the idea of high taxes - even if one personally goes way into tax avoidance.

That was blatant with the Clintons.

Another problem for a Lefty right now is that the Trump Tax law was supposed to hurt the poor and comfort the rich. How awkward for them that it clearly is afflicting many in High Tax States who have any property at all that can be taxed.

An example of that awkwardness was seen with Bernie very recently. His new millionaire status prompted a challenge from President Trump that he should pay the old, pre-Trump taxes if he feels strongly about his beliefs.

As you know, James, the issue for the middle class, well-off, and rich in High Tax States like Vermont, the location of at least one of Bernies three homes, is worse now.

They pay more than before the Trump Tax law!

It would have been very awkward for millionaire Bernie, the Democratic Socialist Presidential contender, to honestly explain that:

"As a millionaire with three homes, I wish I could go back to the old tax law! I would pay less! Under the Trump tax law, I am paying more!"

He opted to simply say that he paid his taxes.


Last edited by greendocnowciv, 4/18/2019, 7:14 am
4/18/2019, 7:07 am Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
James Jaeger Profile
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Re: TAX RETURNS -- Unreasonable Searches and Seizures?


Some excellent observations. My specific comments below:

>James,

>>"I guess no one here pays taxes..."

>Just a few days ago, I hit the tax issue on another of your posts. Taxes have been an interest of mine for many decades. Not out of need, though. I didn't pay much at all most of my life due to low earnings and low equity holdings.

I'm in the same boat, however I have watched the rape and pillage that is taxation with my late parents, my father being a physician with taxable income. I also watch my grandparents being raped and pillaged, my grandfather being a neurosurgeon with significant income. My dad/grandfather's only crimes: they saved lives as MDs. So, given what I have witness for three generations up to myself, a filmmaker of modest means, I am so !@#$ PISSED I almost don't know what to do. I am currently working on a documentary about the UNITED NATIONS but frankly I wish someone who was as pissed as me would donate $100,000 to our production company so I could make a documentary that expressed this pissed-off-ness.

>The Dems and the other Lefties among us probably stay out of it because, for many of them, it's the norm to buy into the "big gov" paradigm.

You're damn right. The !@#$ Lefties are the CAUSE of all this taxation with their demands for ever more government services. These assholes don't pay any taxes so of course they will have infinite demands. 50% of "cits" don't pay taxes = Dems. Dems suck off the productive. This is one of the things that's fucked up about the system -- Watch the movie SPOILER -- we go into it http://www.HomeVideo.net

>That includes overtly, publicly accepting the idea of high taxes - even if one personally goes way into tax avoidance.

Absolutely.

>That was blatant with the Clintons.

Whatever, they have other crimes, like signing NAFTA and destroying the manufacturing base hence the middle class.

>Another problem for a Lefty right now is that the Trump Tax law was supposed to hurt the poor and comfort the rich. How awkward for them that it clearly is afflicting many in High Tax States who have any property at all that can be taxed.

I just finished doing the compilations for the corporation and am now doing personal taxes. I have accountants do the corporation but I always do the personal so I can stay in touch with how the tax code is effecting regular people. I will state this: the personal tax is WAY to high, for poor, middle and rich people. And I have checked with my friends at these levels. One friend just said he earned $120,000 and paid out $30,000 in taxes. Another said he earned $29,000 and paid out $4,000. These are the bottom lines after you go through all the horseshit in the 1040 -- and there are no kids or business deductions other than the standard deduction which Trump doubled to some $24,000. In the above data, 30k on 120K is a 25% tax and 4k on 29K is a 14% tax. This is !@#$ robbery, especially when you consider this is only PART of the tax burden. THEN there is state, county and township taxes and the asshols at the UN are pushing for a GLOBAL TAX. Sales tax, gasoline taxes, more. Then there is mandatory condo fees for some and mandatory car insurance for almost all. Now the !@#$-hole Dems want us to pay for mandatory ObamaCare. And don't forget the hidden tax of inflation.

Americans are taxed by MULTIPLE GOVERNMENTS, on every ENTITY and at almost every TRANSACTION. This is much worse than the Boston Tea Party days.

It's a wonder taxpayers don't EXPLODE -- at least 50% of them. I tell you there is going to be a MAJOR TAX REVOLT because I can't be the only one pissed. I am just gifted with the ability to express what many are feeling in writing -- but I will assure you I talk with thousands of people by phone every year and most of them are as raving pissed as I am.

>An example of that awkwardness was seen with Bernie very recently. His new millionaire status prompted a challenge from President Trump that he should pay the old, pre-Trump taxes if he feels strongly about his beliefs.

!@#$ Bernie -- I don't care about what he says or does. He is irrelevant to History.

>As you know, James, the issue for the middle class, well-off, and rich in High Tax States like Vermont, the location of at least one of Bernies three homes, is worse now.

True. See my data above.

>They pay more than before the Trump Tax law!

Seems to be.

>It would have been very awkward for millionaire Bernie, the Democratic Socialist Presidential contender, to honestly explain that: "As a millionaire with three homes, I wish I could go back to the old tax law! I would pay less! Under the Trump tax law, I am paying more!"

Forget Bernie, he's an idiot.

>He opted to simply say that he paid his taxes.




Last edited by James Jaeger, 4/18/2019, 2:40 pm
4/18/2019, 2:18 pm Link to this post PM James Jaeger Blog
 
James Jaeger Profile
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Re: TAX RETURNS -- Unreasonable Searches and Seizures?


Americans are taxed by MULTIPLE GOVERNMENTS, on every ENTITY and at almost every TRANSACTION. This is much worse than the Boston Tea Party days.
4/18/2019, 2:41 pm Link to this post PM James Jaeger Blog
 
James Jaeger Profile
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Re: TAX RETURNS -- Unreasonable Searches and Seizures?


>JJ, Since income taxes have been in place for about a century and one of the preeminent cliches in our civilization is ‘ there are two things you can’t escape death and taxes’. Most folks in here are more interested Iin the former Just sayin

The people here A) do not pay taxes as they suck off the System; or B) they are afraid to speak out; or C) they are STUPID.

Just because a bunch of asshole Bankers were able to pass the Income Tax law in 1913 and the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 does not make taxes right or inevitable.




Last edited by James Jaeger, 4/18/2019, 2:47 pm
4/18/2019, 2:46 pm Link to this post PM James Jaeger Blog
 


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