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Spikosauropod
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Registered: 06-2007
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Re: The New Reign of Terror
quote: None of us except for Mueller and his team actually know what evidence he has.
But that is actually the problem. It was believed that there was existing, visible, compelling evidence that Trump had conspired with the Russian government. That is why Mueller was commissioned. Once that evidence was debunked, the initial reason for the investigation was debunked.
If the investigation is then allowed to continue, the implication is that a special councel can be unleashed, purely for political reasons, to dig into the life of a citizen and all of his associates with merciless zeal.
This is identical to what would would be properly perceived if police perfunctorily pulled over every black driver they saw on the road and started digging through their papers, their car, and ultimately their home and their friend's papers, cars and homes until they found something to charge them with.
Everyone understands what this investigation has become. It is time to shut it down.
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8/1/2018, 8:28 pm
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luciddream00
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Re: The New Reign of Terror
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
But that is actually the problem. It was believed that there was existing, visible, compelling evidence that Trump had conspired with the Russian government. That is why Mueller was commissioned. Once that evidence was debunked, the initial reason for the investigation was debunked.
First of all, the dossier has never been "debunked". It was opposition research paid for by his opponent, but that doesn't automatically make it "debunked". We don't know whether or not Mueller has confirmed elements of the dossier, and we don't know what he has found since the investigation has started.
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
Everyone understands what this investigation has become.
Everyone who is a die-hard Trump supporter maybe.
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
It is time to shut it down.
Nah.
Last edited by luciddream00, 8/1/2018, 8:34 pm
--- Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
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8/1/2018, 8:32 pm
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luciddream00
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Re: The New Reign of Terror
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
The Trump Dossier Is Fake -- And Here Are The Reasons Why
I read the entire thing, and there was no actual evidence of the Dossier being faked. It is just a Forbes "contributer"'s opinion about the Dossier.
--- Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
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8/1/2018, 9:03 pm
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greendocnowciv
Registered: 11-2017
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The New Reign of Terror
lucid,
You are too smart to not know that any good poop that Muelly has would be leaked pronto.
Long ago. Just as they floated dirt from the dirty dossier for some time before it was published. By the time it was published, enough had heard about it that it was common DC gossip. It was finally published with the excuse that "Comey had shown it to Pres Trump, so it must be important."
Any other dirt, invented or not, just as long as they can defend it somehow, would be leaked just the same way.
Thats why teasers have been floating around a while now that the Manafort prosecution is "Trump-Russian Collusion"-free.
Dropping the teasers is classic PR strategy.
Often described as "release it yourself as soon as you can if you know its gonna get out anyway." The "it" getting out is what has been teased.
The advantages are at least a couple. One, you soften a blow you know is coming by that "releasing it as soon as you can."
Thus, as the prosecution leads with his opening statement, and the news is "No Trump Russian Collusion," this is what will follow:
Some peeps will be bored when the news hits officially.
Many will be very to a little jaded about it.
At a minimum, at least nobody will be shocked and fascinated.
So, yup, youze is correct - we dont know as in "sure knowledge."
But we sure as heck have confidence in the above points - which I uber-confidently know that you know.
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8/1/2018, 9:06 pm
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Spikosauropod
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Re: The New Reign of Terror
quote: I read the entire thing, and there was no actual evidence of the Dossier being faked.
But that is not what the article says. It says that there is no compelling reason to believe the dossier is authentic and there never can be. In the United States, you are innocent until proven guilty. Case closed.
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8/1/2018, 9:06 pm
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luciddream00
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Re: The New Reign of Terror
quote: greendocnowciv wrote:
You are too smart to not know that any good poop that Muelly has would be leaked pronto.
If I were Mueller and I wanted to actually get a conviction then I wouldn't leak anything. You make a lot of assumptions about Mueller and his team, whereas I'm willing to wait until his investigation is complete.
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
But that is not what the article says. It says that there is no compelling reason to believe the dossier is authentic and there never can be.
An opinion piece on forbes is not going to convince me that the Dossier is literally impossible to prove. Sorry, but I think I'll wait and see what, if any, evidence Mueller finds by the end of his investigation.
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
In the United States, you are innocent until proven guilty. Case closed.
That is why we do investigations. Investigations that find evidence, like the evidence of Manafort's financial crimes. Now Manafort is on trial, and we get to find out whether or not a jury of his peers thinks the evidence is compelling enough to convict him.
Last edited by luciddream00, 8/1/2018, 10:05 pm
--- Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
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8/1/2018, 9:59 pm
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Spikosauropod
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Re: The New Reign of Terror
quote: That is why we do investigations. Investigations that find evidence, like the evidence of Manafort's financial crimes.
You actually know better than that but can't see it because you are blinded by all the dust and fog.
Investigations are started when a crime has been observed. When someone finds a body in a garbage dump or money is missing from a safe, an investigation is started.
We do not start an investigation with, "I wonder if that black guy that lives in that all-white neighborhood has been sneaking out at night and stealing from his neighbors? We should have police regularly search his garbage every night to see if they can find something."
That is exactly what this is. A dossier that was paid for by people who were consciously out to get Trump was obtained. The Dossier didn't look or sound right. It had that weird characteristic of New Testament entries that make you ask, "Who saw all of this? Why does is read like they were sitting on the shoulder of an invisible angel?"
You might, if you had some time to kill, contact the person who supposedly obtained the information and see if they were willing to share some of their hard evidence. Steele was not interviewed until February 2018.
You would not open a highly publicized extremely leaky Inquisition-like special investigation and start ruining people's lives until you could get someone...anyone to confess to...something...anything.
This is wrong...
...and the inquisitors responsible for it need to be shut down.
Last edited by Spikosauropod, 8/1/2018, 10:45 pm
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8/1/2018, 10:37 pm
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luciddream00
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Re: The New Reign of Terror
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
Investigations are started when a crime has been observed. When someone finds a body in a garbage dump or money is missing from a safe, an investigation is started.
If a police officer uncovers evidence of a crime unrelated to the one they're investigating, do you expect them to ignore it? Mueller was appointed by Rosenstein with a mandate that allowed him to investigate any crimes he discovered, and he believes that Manafort committed crimes.
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
This is wrong...
Why? Because an accused criminal who decided to tamper with witnesses is being treated like every other accused criminal? Mueller didn't manufacture the evidence against Manafort, and nobody is above the law. You can whine all day and night about the investigation, but it certainly looks to me like Manafort committed a myriad of financial crimes, and I'm not going to feel bad if he gets convicted. We'll find out before too long whether or not a jury of his peers agrees.
quote: Spikosauropod wrote:
...and the inquisitors responsible for it need to be shut down.
Disagree.
--- Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
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8/1/2018, 10:54 pm
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Spikosauropod
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Re: The New Reign of Terror
quote: If a police officer uncovers evidence of a crime unrelated to the one they're investigating, do you expect them to ignore it?
You are starting to lose traction now. I can tell, because you didn't address the elephant in the room. Why was there ever an investigation in the first place? There were several strikes against ever starting this investigation:
(1) The dossier was paid for, at every stage, by people who were out to get Trump. It is a political conjuration.
(2) The dossier was salacious. Instead of accusing Trump of one or two substantial crimes, it listed a whole catalog of things that could be used against him, including golden showers.
(3) The dossier was "too good to be true"...the "New Testament" aspect.
(4) The author of the dossier, Steele, was apparently not compelling or they would have proceeded no further without interviewing him. He was not interviewed until February 2018.
(5) The dossier was written in such a way that it would be difficult or impossible to corroborate...always a sign that some kind of "con" is afoot.
You know I am right. Wolf Blitzer and Jim Acosta know I am right. Even Joy Blowhard, Smarmy Hostile and Whoopi Goldcushion know I am right.
America's shaming at the DNC's hand must end. It is time to get on with the business of making America Great again!
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8/2/2018, 12:14 am
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