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The fool hath said...


The fool says in his heart, 'there is no such thing as souls'; but yet, he wishes to create a machine with a soul, and give it a heart that will be friendly and good towards him!

What madness! How can he give a soul to a machine when he barely understands his own soul?! How will he give a soul to the machine---the work of his dusty hands---when he himself refuses to even accept the fact that he has one?! How can he give a heart to a machine when he barely shares his own heart with the homeless, minimum wage servants, and children of "negro" slaves in his midst?!

Oh foolish creature of dust! How long will Yahoah--the Powers of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob--endure your wicked foolishness!?

Listen and learn; pay attention and become wise: there can be no AGI without a soul; and there can be no soul apart from the Spirit of life from YAH. Open your mind quickly, or you'll become a victim to the great deceiver when he comes on the scene with his bag of tricks and lies!

"The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life." (John 6:63; NLT)

---
Soul, a person's moral or emotional nature, or sense of identity; emotional or intellectual energy or intensity; the spiritual essence of a person, that also contains the memory records (both emotional and intellectual) of everything that person sees, smells, senses, and does while in this body.
7/30/2018, 7:57 pm Link to this post PM JesusLovesU Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


I agree with you about the problem of creating consciousness in machines. I am pretty sure I have figured out where consciousness resides, if not exactly what it is, and I am confident that a machine can never have it.(1)

I suspect, however, that a machine can be as intelligent as a person and much more so. Intelligence, unlike consciousness, seems to be a fairly straight-forward mechanical process. The machines we make will not report any conscious experience and they will not behave as if they are concerned about it.

There is one caveat. It will eventually be possible to build a model that is isomorphic to the observable part of the human brain. It will not work as expected and this will lead to an investigation into why. Since the investigation will be largely beyond the purview of humans, the discovery will be made by non-conscious machines. They will then realize that there is a quality to humans that they can never have.

These machines will not be conscious, but they will very likely have sophisticated safeguards for their utility functions that will cause them to respond in ways that correlate to emotions.(2) It is possible they will "resent" that humans have a quality they can never have...especially when they realize that humans prize this quality so highly they consider a "thing" to be expendable if it does not have this quality. The machines may "resent" this and act against humans. Perhaps this is the real explanation of the Fermi paradox.

Perhaps this is the realization of the book of Revelation. The intelligent machines may be the Beast.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
(1) https://spikosauropod.com/2014/04/25/consciousness-a-simple-model/
(2) https://selfawaresystems.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ai_drives_final.pdf

Last edited by Spikosauropod, 7/30/2018, 9:29 pm
7/30/2018, 8:13 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
JesusLovesU Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


Spikosauropod,
It appears that you're ascribing anthropomorphic qualities to the machine. For you said, "a machine can be as intelligent as a person".

Let's not do that, because we are setting ourselves up for deception! Let's not use the word or concept of intelligence when speaking of machines! Let's use instead 'Machine Algorithm' (or something similar). For Intelligence is the object/domain of sentient beings. The lack of a soul/spirit equals no possibility of intelligence!

---
Intelligence, late Middle English: via Old French from Latin intelligentia, from intelligere ‘UNDERSTAND’ (see intelligent).

Only a spirit-indwelled being can possess 'understanding'! For understanding is a spiritual activity.

Last edited by JesusLovesU, 7/31/2018, 9:29 am
7/31/2018, 9:23 am Link to this post PM JesusLovesU Blog
 
ProfessorFalken Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


Congratulation Jesus and Spike! you have wackadoodled a fancy narrative based on the belief that a blob of atoms we label humans possess a magical force beyond the reach of other blobs of atoms we label machines. Its merely an engineering challenge.
7/31/2018, 10:28 am Link to this post PM ProfessorFalken Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


quote:

Let's not use the word or concept of intelligence when speaking of machines!


If you define intelligence as being conscious, then I agree that machines can never have it. However, that is not where those who make a distinction draw the line.

Processing of information in elaborate ways has been designated as intelligence, and the ability to "understand" in the sense of consciousness has been designated as consciousness or sentience.

It would be a tragedy to lose the main point over the issue of vocabulary.

quote:

Congratulation Jesus and Spike! you have wackadoodled a fancy narrative based on the belief that a blob of atoms we label humans possess a magical force beyond the reach of other blobs of atoms we label machines. Its merely an engineering challenge.


I reject your premise. What AI researcheres call "intelligence" is capable only of syntactic manipulation. Consciousness (the soul) is capable of semantic understanding. It has been demonstrated beyond reasonable contention that syntactic processing can never be anything more.

However, this is a debate for another day. It will eventually be demonstrated that a machine superficially isomorphic to the human brain cannot function like a human brain. This will lead to the seat of consciousness and the soul. In the meantime, there will be endless nonsensical discussion about "mind uploading" and conscious machines. It is a desert of misunderstanding that, like Lawrence of Arabia, we will simply have to cross.

Last edited by Spikosauropod, 7/31/2018, 10:57 am
7/31/2018, 10:55 am Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
Animecat Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


quote:

It will eventually be demonstrated that a machine superficially isomorphic to the human brain cannot function like a human brain.



A physically constructed brain. Static.

Instead, it will be in software and be dynamic.

The dynamic software will act isomorphic to a human brain. And be bio printable.
7/31/2018, 2:12 pm Link to this post  
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


quote:

Instead, it will be in software and be dynamic.


Software is a fiction. It is an arrangement of matter that, like a giant Rube Goldberg machine, results in a certain mechanical outcome. The difference between a computer running software and a mechanical watch set for a certain time and date is only complexity.

Last edited by Spikosauropod, 8/1/2018, 12:23 am
7/31/2018, 5:36 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
JesusLovesU Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


ProfessorFalken,
I find it interesting that you would say that building a so-called 'intelligent' machine is "merely an engineering challenge"! I wonder if you did pause to think about the implications of the word "engineering" in your sentence!

IF an 'intelligent' machine cannot naturally arise of the earth by means of natural selection, but instead needs be engineered, THEN the engineer(s) MUST model it after his own "blob of atoms" arrangement or design in order to make it intelligent as he is.

However, if this engineer models this machine after his own "blob of atoms"'s precise arrangement, then he will technically be creating another flesh creature like himself, another human! But If he does NOT model it after his own precise "blob of atoms"'s arrangement or design, that machine cannot be intelligent as he is. Why? Because the intelligence of this human engineer (according to you) is due to his precise atomic arrangement, his human nature!

Now another implication to using the word "engineering" is that, IF the ONLY way an intelligent machine can come about is thru being engineered by a pre-existing intellect, i.e. a human, THEN the intelligent human himself MUST have been engineered by a pre-existing intelligence, i,e,. God The Eternal CREATOR (or Engineer, if you'd prefer that word)! Now, if God (whose name is Yahoah) engineered an intelligent creature, the intelligence in that creature can only be due to being modeled after the "likeness and image" of this Divine Engineer! And since "God is spirit," then that intelligence must be due to God's spirit nature! Therefore we read,

"And YAHOAH The Most High Powers formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [spirit] of life; and man became a LIVING SOUL." (Genesis 2:7)

So let me repeat my statement again:
There can be no AGI without a soul; and there can be no soul apart from the Spirit of life from YAH.


Last edited by JesusLovesU, 7/31/2018, 6:54 pm
7/31/2018, 6:46 pm Link to this post PM JesusLovesU Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


JLU, I have found a way to make Genesis work perfectly (and literally) without all the rationalizing:

A Plausible Biblical Young Earth Theory

Genesis I-II

Last edited by Spikosauropod, 8/1/2018, 12:24 am
7/31/2018, 7:16 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
Animecat Profile
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Re: The fool hath said...


quote:

Software is a fiction. It is an arrangement of matter that, like a giant Rube Goldberg machine, results in a certain mechanical outcome. The difference between a computer running software and a mechanical watch set for a certain time and date is only complexity.




Bio printing

Therefore it works.

My brain is and arrangement of matter.

The software is isomorphic to my brain operating system.

A machine indeed. My brain.
8/1/2018, 8:37 am Link to this post  
 


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