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Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


>Your crediting of worker benefits to workers fighting greedy masters tooth and nail is erroneous<

No it isn’t. Bismark standing up for workers’ rights does not change the fact that workers had to fight for just about everything. It just goes to show that their struggle ended up catching the attention of a powerful political figure.

‘Willing to work’ makes it sound as though such people happily accepted their fate. But you might just as well say that Japanese prisoners of war were ‘willing’ to put up with the awful conditions under which the Burma railway was constructed. After all, they did do the work rather than quit and accept the consequences, right?

Fact is, sometimes people find themselves in situations where choice is so restricted to claim they act in their ‘own free will’ is decidedly dubious. Sometimes people do what they do because they have no choice, not because they want to.

Spiko is only speaking the partial truth when he claims industrialisation ended poor working conditions. In fact, it made conditions quite a bit worse for the working classes and it was only through their collective action and insistence that they were owed more than just poverty wages that things like child labour, excessive overtime and dangerous working conditions were dealt with.

The idea that there is something evil about workers standing up for themselves and wanting more from the businesses they help prosper than punishing work and poverty wages, or that society owes a good life to all its citizens and not just a privileged few is, well, evil. Yes, you do get bad people and organisations who pretend to be on the side of the downtrodden masses so as to achieve their real aim of power for its own sake, and people do get unfortunately fall for their speeches and ‘promises’ but that doesn’t make workers’ rights, workplace safety, decent wages, holiday entitlement, medical attention for those who need it and not just those who can afford it and other things won by leftist campaigning evil. Such things should not be ignored, just as anti-capitalists really should not ignore the tremendous good than many entrepreneurs and businesspeople have achieved over the centuries.

7/12/2018, 3:52 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


>Now, when there is a shortage of workers, employers are forced to pay them<

How interesting you should put it like that. ‘Forced to pay them more’ makes it sound like conditions had conspired to make bosses act in ways contrary to their interests. “We really do not want to do this, but hey-ho we are forced to”.

This is not how bosses act according to libertarians like Stefan Molyneux. According to such people, bosses (not all, admittedly) may be ruthless in their determination to beat market competition and build up their business, but once success has been achieved and a tidy profit is coming in, they happily pay their workers more and gladly increase the benefits of working for their organisation.

Your way of putting it is closer to the truth. The original free market libertarian, echoed your view when he said “at every stage there is revealed the workings of the vile maxim of the masters of mankind-“all for ourselves and nothing for other people”.

That is, unless they are forced to recognise the entitlements of those they would rather exploit.

And it’s leftist politics that brings about that recognition (once again I should say you can swing too far left).
7/12/2018, 7:27 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


Extie,

Sorry - regarding Bizzy in Germany, the peeps never had a chance. The peeps were always under the thumb of "the man," just as in Russia.

To compare either to the Imperial Japanese is simply not accurate. That was a weird mass-produced Samurai influence of Zen Buddhism with something very much like medieval fealty that was Imperial Japan, with its almost total disregard for the lives of its enlisted troops, civilians, and prisoners. I am not arrogantly feeling superior knowing that - it is almost useless data. Many find no interest in these societies at those periods.

You clearly have dwelt long and hard on other things. But here, clearly not. I have failed to use a good example. Searching, I think I found one that will succeed - many more peeps are familiar with how the Russians transitioned to being Soviet. With that example, Bizzy's Germany may make more sense.

I am sure that you are up on how it went in Russia. There the mass of Czarist Serfs essentially spent a minute transitioning from Czarist Serfs to Democratic citizens before returning to a state very similar to a modern serfdom under the Soviets. There they faced even more rigorous controls than the Czarist version.

Think of Bizzy's Germany as a more benevolent fascistic society, where the schools teach obedience along with the ABC's. That was the Prussian model which became the German model.

The "kinder" were growin' into "good Germans" in that Prussian "garten."

Obedient to moving under direction of a teacher from one room to another, learning to read and do the other subjects, and get routed into various specialized employment training or advanced academic work.

No "tooth und nail" rebellions in either case. The "Marxist" paradigm in theory is beautiful to many. In the real world it always, to date, fails.

Last edited by greendocnowciv, 7/12/2018, 3:16 pm
7/12/2018, 10:13 am Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
richiemobile Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


Hitler claimed his opponents were ‘evil’ So did Mussolini and Stalin

In a Singulitarian parlance calling a political movement ‘evil’ immediately makes the person using the word suspect.

It is the nature of political discourse to assert that your side has a ‘better’ perspective but to assert that the other side is ‘evil’. Is in itself a red flag about the utterer.
7/12/2018, 10:31 am Link to this post PM richiemobile Blog
 
RedQ Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


quote:

Is in itself a red flag about the utterer.



It is utter nonsense to suggest Hitler was right-wing.
7/12/2018, 10:38 am Link to this post PM RedQ Blog
 
richiemobile Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


My point is that in their moment of power, the most evil leaders call their opponents evil. So it is therefore highly suspect to call the opposition evil.
7/12/2018, 10:52 am Link to this post PM richiemobile Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


quote:

the most evil leaders call their opponents evil.


But I am not a leader. I am an ordinary rational observer that suddenly woke up and realized we are being duped. The Left does not have a different viewpoint. They are subverting society for selfish ends. Moreover, those selfish ends are not some high-minded philosophical proposition. They are a desire to free their libidos.

Abortion on demand exists so that people can participate in adultery without consequence.

The push to allow illegal immigrants to come across the border is intended to magnify a voting block that supports Democrats so that Democrats get elected and can appoint Supreme Court Justices that will legislate from the bench so that laws will be passed so that they can participate in adultery without consequence.

They are pursuing a bogus criminal investigation to terrorize Republicans so that Democrats will win elections and can appoint Supreme Court Justices that will legislate from the bench and pass laws that allow them to participate in adultery without consequence.

They expand welfare programs so that people have a way to pay for babies that are born out of wedlock so that they can participate in adultery without consequence.

Actually, Democrats seem to have only one ideal: to be able to participate in adultery without consequence.

Those of us with loftier concerns have had enough.

---
Spikosaur, of the Uncircumcised Umbrella, Prophet to The Collectors, OA, RMC

Hail Apostle Paul
Praise to Founder Bunny
Glory to the Objects
7/12/2018, 1:43 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


Everything should be suspect.

Hitler wore shoes with laces.

Don sandals immediately!

A little perspective, please. TDS* is apparently affecting even these kindly precincts.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TDS* - Trump Derangement Syndrome
7/12/2018, 2:43 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


>The "Marxist" paradigm in theory is beautiful to many. In the real world it always, to date, fails.<

I would agree that it fails when implemented as a replacement to market competition. I believe this has to do with the kind of people it attracts. It is attractive to those with a vague idea that things could be better. It is attractive to those who don’t really care about building a better world and just watch the world burn and to see those they hold responsible for current woes brought down. It appeals to those who are not opposed to the existence of a ruling elite in principle, and are only bothered that it is not they themselves who are that ruling elite. The latter two groups (lets call them vandals and usurpers) won’t make things any better should they come to power. Nor, for that matter, would the first group (call them ‘dreamers’) not if they don’t have much of a clue regarding what should replace capitalism.

So, given that most of those attracted to socialism are motivated by ambitions that won’t help build a better world, it is true to say that socialism does not work as a replacement for capitalism.

However, it is also true to say that capitalism cannot work in the absence of socialism, if by ‘work’ we mean bring about improvements in prosperity for all. Without some measure of Leftist thinking all you have are governments acting in the interest of business, and in particular big business. The workers have nobody looking out for their interests and, as Spiko has already inadvertently pointed out businesses will focus on their profit margin and to hell with taking care of their workforce unless forced to. Sure, some business owners benevolent. So are some dictators. But would benevolent bosses successfully compete against the more ruthless kind?

History suggests they would not. Once again we come back to the question ‘if capitalism is all you need to build a prosperous society, why did socialism ever come into existence?’. Socialism came into existence because people got fed up with giving so much to their employers and receiving so little. The ruthlessness of capitalism has to be somewhat restrained by policies that give something back to the people so they may share in the prosperity made possible by market competition. Without such restraints all you get is a massive imbalance of power between an unimaginably rich elite few and and the masses who cannot achieve a decent life without getting into worrying levels of debt.
7/13/2018, 4:24 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
spud100 Profile
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Re: The Problem: The Left Is Evil


The most dangerous currently, to freedom, is the ideology of the democrat-which is progressivism. What is progressivism aka liberal fascism? I define it as Marxism funded by billionaires in an exchange of cash for influence. But the greatest craziness is now a feature of the democrats.

Rosenstein--a democrat plant--for example does accusations against russia in time for DJt's meet up with Vlad. No comment about Uranium One, no mention of Fusion-GPS

Now on to the movies!

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7/13/2018, 2:38 pm Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 


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