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greendocnowciv
Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
I think we're both fairly smart, lucid.
Yes, one mans' apple, or man, is another mans' banana, or woman - unless you're Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro.
Then an apple is an apple.
The old sticks and stones motto works if one man makes fun of another, or publicly asks about his birth certificate.
Ex Pres Obama had already reacted to that in the normal way - first, after years of stretching the issue out as a way of trolling Repubs and Conservos in general and amusing fellow "smart Dems," he fairly quickly gave into Private Citizen Trumps public campaign of discussing it on Oprah, late nite shows, etc.
Suddenly somebody immune to being questioned or made fun of was involved. Then Ex Pres Obama issued a web version of his BC. And famously took numerous shots at Private Citizen Trump at that one Correspondents Dinner.
You think that's the same as being prosecuted, and seeing friends and contacts prosecuted?
No, rather I imagine you share a failing here we all fall prey to sometimes - I have felt it, and its hard to resist sometimes, certainly. You simply don't want to admit that OK, no prosecution of Ex Pres Obama.
And we both know that it was a just investigation of one of the Criminal Clinton spouses.
The other one is probably set for it to start sometime after the midterms.
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6/19/2018, 7:25 pm
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luciddream00
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Registered: 04-2018
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
The Democrats are not doing anything different than the Republicans. Both parties latch onto every perceived scandal and scream about it to their base. The only difference is that Trump is actually crooked, and there is a lot more to find.
Last edited by luciddream00, 6/19/2018, 8:06 pm
--- Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
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6/19/2018, 8:05 pm
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RedQ
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
quote: The Democrats are not doing anything different than the Republicans.
Well, that's baloney. There is no moral equivalence between the Rs and Ds if for no other reason that the Rs are immediately exposed by the media and prosecuted, while the Ds get away with murder and the media turns a blind eye. Example: Hillary ran the biggest pay-to-play operation through her 'charitable' foundation. Only 16% went to charity and the rest into the pockets of Hillary and her crew. No media interest. Donald Trump is being investigated for 'irregularities' in his charitable foundation. It gave away 110% of it's income and paid no staff. The media howls at the Trump charity. P.S. Who killed Seth Rich, and why?
quote: The only difference is that Trump is actually crooked, and there is a lot more to find.
That's a stinking lie, but typical of the Left. We see law-breaking all the time by the Left, and it never seems to be punished. But if you're associated with Trump, no method is spared to bring you down. Mannafort is now in solitary confinement, after a no-knock home invasion in the middle of the night by the FBI. And I won't even get into the whole disgraceful immolation of Mike Cohen.
Last edited by RedQ, 6/20/2018, 2:02 pm
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6/20/2018, 8:59 am
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Spikosauropod
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Registered: 06-2007
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
quote: If Trump is innocent of crimes then he has nothing to worry about.
That was true when we were still something of a republic. Now that we are a deep-state fascism, it is no longer true. Possibly, the Golden One can get us back to republicanism.
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6/20/2018, 9:09 am
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greendocnowciv
Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
Spike,
"If Trump is innocent of crimes then he has nothing to worry about."
A little thought experiment, which could actually be enacted.
Lets imagine a spokesperson going to a Historically Black College (HBC). There he will go to several classrooms and propose what I will call, in context with this threaded discussion, the "lucid rule."
The lucid rule being applied fairly by stating to absolutely anyone: If a cop stops you to, and states the desire to "check you out," and proceeds to ask you specific questions about your day and physically searches you - then any lawbreaking from you in result would be your fault; your guilt.
If none, you have no complaint.
Based on that formulation, I propose an experimental, empirical finding to be searched for, by actually going to an HBC and doing this. Yet...who would we talk into actually posing the question?
Borat?
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6/20/2018, 11:14 am
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luciddream00
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Registered: 04-2018
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
Trump hired Rosenstein, Rosenstein thought there was enough circumstantial evidence to appoint a special counsel. The special counsel was given a mandate, and it included Russian collusion and any crimes that are discovered as a result of that investigation. You can try and make comparisons to other, unrelated situations, but the core facts won't change. If you have a problem with the special counsel then complain about the laws and rules that allow him to be appointed. Everyone involved has followed the legal processes.
Roughly half of this country wants a thorough investigation into this president, and the other half isn't going to be able to stop it just because they're afraid of what might be found. After Whitewater and after 8 years of investigations into everything even remotely questionable during the Obama administration, the "witch hunt" whine no longer holds water. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Of course the irony is that since a majority of Americans still support the Mueller investigation, it would be a huge political blunder to fire Mueller now, and even if he fired Mueller whatever evidence has been found won't suddenly disappear. We're going to see this to the end, for better or worse.
Last edited by luciddream00, 6/20/2018, 11:48 am
--- Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
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6/20/2018, 11:39 am
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greendocnowciv
Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
lucid,
You started with a good half sentence:
"Trump hired Rosenstein..."
President Trump did indeed leave Rod Rosenstein at the top levels of the DOJ, and indeed, elevated him to #2.
Now we veer off track.
The invaluable Dersh, Prof Dershowitz, hits the issue more basically in an embedded vid in this article:
http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2018/03/21/dershowitz-special-counsel-never-should-have-been-appointed.html
Dersh points out that a Special Counsel or Prosecutor goes after a target and is not looking for truth, but to "get them." Thats fine for political opponents, and not our system of justice.
Thats why we don't do it that way all the time. That's also why no other country does this.
We only do it out of a desire by one party in Congress to "get" a specific President.
That article, by the way, does a great job of showing how Mueller and Comey have a terrible job in the past of railroading people into jail.
The Gov had to pay out millions later in compensation for the abuse of authority by those two.
Last edited by greendocnowciv, 6/20/2018, 1:40 pm
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6/20/2018, 1:16 pm
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luciddream00
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Registered: 04-2018
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
quote: We only do it out of a desire by one party in Congress to "get" a specific President.
"One party"? You mean the Republicans? Remember, it wasn't Democrats who started the special counsel investigation, it was a Republican Trump appointee. Trump isn't the only president to be investigated either. Once again I'll point out the long and drawn out process of investigating Clinton during the Whitewater scandal. The investigation that ultimately found no criminal wrongdoing about the original topic of investigation, but rather ended up with an impeachment based on perjury related to lying about a blow job.
For better or worse, this is how the system works, even if "Dersh" doesn't like it.
Last edited by luciddream00, 6/20/2018, 1:46 pm
--- Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
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6/20/2018, 1:44 pm
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spud100
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Registered: 12-2017
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
Franken-Mueller will be left on his own, and we will respond when he does. So, if he wants to prosecute-let him, sans, evidence. Under comrade Hillary we would have had Joe Stalin show trials, but this is not that universe.
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6/20/2018, 2:29 pm
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greendocnowciv
Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Number of Americans Supporting Ending Russia Investigation Doubles
The "system" doesnt work that way. And your problem with the Clinton process is exactly the point.
A crime should be named and investigated. My, Spuds, Spiro Agnew, or anyone elses' ideas on how guilty Ex Pres Clinton was is not what Justice is supposed to be.
If your idea of justice is revenge, the same thing that drove the Hatfields and McCoys, and centuries of revenge killing in Afghan culture - then your fear of tribalism is closer to you than you may have thought.
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6/20/2018, 3:01 pm
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