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TheInvisibleHand Profile
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Justification for Invoking Rule 14


On 4/29/2018 I invoked Rules for Moderators rule 14 and moved this thread to the Netherworld:

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Our rules require that I explain such actions in writing.

After members began to refer to each other’s comments as “threats”, I felt justified in invoking this rule. However, the real reason why I intervened is that the conversation had turned toxic and no one seemed to see a way out of the quandary.

The curious thing about this particular discussion is that it involved three moderators, and one regular member. The moderators seemed to be upset at how the member had expressed himself, but seemed unwilling or unable to act. Moderators have the ability to edit anything that a regular poster says and can do so at any time, provided they explain what they have done and why. They do not need to be at the mercy of a regular poster. If the poster continues to make disturbing comments, they can start editing out anything disturbing that this poster says and consider the initial explanation sufficient for all further edits. These edits are not to be regarded as punishment. They are to be regarded as editing.

In the future, I recommend that moderators keep an eye on one another. If a moderator seems to be caught up in a degenerating situation and does not seem to know what to do, try to guide them out of it. If that does not work, simply declare the entire thread toxic and threaten to move it to the Netherworld section as I have done. If that fails, hide the thread and contact me. Unfortunately, moderating is a job. That is one of the reasons why I have spread it out to at least seven people. You have to WORK at moderating. It is not going to be easy.

If tempers have flared to an unacceptable degree, I will hide and lock the thread and write another explanation like this one. If any member becomes totally unmanageable, I will temporarily block their access to the forum until everyone cools down and the possibility of restoring order seems imminent.

No one is immune to becoming so upset that they lose perspective. I also fall prey to this on occasion. If I suffer from this impairment, you must intervene and caution me as well. Unfortunately, I am holding onto the reins, and if I get out of control there may be no remedy. That is why it is very important that members try to keep these matters out of my hands. That is the darker and more mammalian reason for what I said in my Administrative introduction. I do not want to get involved in these kinds of issues. Please try to work things out so that I do not have to. However, do not misinterpret this request. I am not asking that I be defended from members. I can take care of myself. Just try to keep from entangling me in disputes between other members.

Something was said in this thread that was particularly upsetting to me. It was observed that our forum seems to have become an “echo chamber” for right leaning ideas. At the present time, we have a predominantly right-leaning membership, so it is easy to see how this impression could be cultivated. In the future, I recommend that our right-leaning members make a special effort to be magnanimous and tolerant so as not to reinforce this image. Naturally you have to say what you think, but try to say it in as matter-of-fact way as possible and try not to react too strongly to inflammatory responses. At this point in our forum’s life, it is more important to cultivate membership and make members feel at home than to win arguments.

I apologize if I seem to have overstepped my bounds. Inevitably I have. Such is life.

This thread is open to discussion.
4/29/2018, 10:17 am Link to this post PM TheInvisibleHand Blog
 
Wayne Botha Profile
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


Thank you for your intervention and very balanced critique, Spiko.

There is nothing you need to apologize for. Neither any of the others I have argued with. We are all adults and should not take offense at harsh words exchanged at times. It's the constant barrage of insults and lies directed at those that do not share the Spud and Doc worldview/opinion/ideology, that needs to stop.

Everything I have said, that may have been considered an insult, or a personal insult, would not have upset me in the least, if it was said to me, in exactly similar circumstances. However, I go out of my way to make truthful statements/comments and to provide as many sources/facts/research as needed/possible for points I make or to prove someone's statements wrong.

Spud and Doc simply throw false statements around constantly, even after having been proven wrong on a particular point.

They throw insults around constantly. Read almost any thread created by either of them, or in which they [sign in to see URL] is almost always oozing hatred/contempt/insults towards anyone that does not share his worldview/opinion/ideology. Doc then almost always is there to agree with Spud and add his own similar commentary, dripping with his usual patronizing attitude, which continues, even when he gets proven wrong, or is shown to be lying, trolling, or insulting.
4/29/2018, 2:36 pm Link to this post PM Wayne Botha Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


Wayne, I wish I was smart enough to tell when one party is lying and the other is telling the truth. The reality in this situation is that Spud and Doc both know more politics and history than I do. I can usually tell when people are getting on each other's nerves and the situation is getting out of hand. However, even in that case I doubt myself.

I can recall many situations when someone said something that seemed a priori wrong and it made me so furious that I wanted to just shut them up and make them go away. In retrospect, I realized that I was not in sufficient control of the facts to be sure of my position and was probably just acting out of prejudice. I could list the instances where this has occurred, but that would jut give away my sundry Achilles heels.

The unfortunate problem with online disputes is they never have to end. Eventually, one party begins to get frustrated with the other party's responses, and becomes angry enough that they feel the need to take the conflict up a notch. I have never discovered a clear remedy for that type of situation. Alas, the great debate goes on and most of the real issues are not settled until some great discovery is made. Even then, there are holdouts that continue to argue against what most have come to regard as common sense. There are still people who believe the earth is flat. When we have built glass domes over the first lunar landings and put up little commemorative plaques, there will still be people who believe these landings were faked.

Our moderators have to stay above the fray so that they can ensure tranquility. This is harder than it seems, because they are on this site for their own benefit. They are not paid to moderate. I have to stay well above the fray so that I can bring peace at a minimum cost to free discourse. This is much harder than it seems, since I too am here for my own benefit. I recognized this problem as being so fundamental that I literally gave myself two separate identities and swore to myself that I would only log on as the all-powerful Administrative identity when something needed to be fixed.

I think you may be beginning to see why I wrote the rules the way I did. I made the rules my own boss so that I can look to them for guidance when my own good sense is stretched to the breaking point. This, as I have explained less formally, is something I learned as a Math teacher. I have learned it in so many ways that it now seems second nature.

---
Spikosaur, of the Uncircumcised Umbrella, Prophet to The Collectors, OA, RMC

Hail Apostle Paul
Praise to Founder Bunny
Glory to the Objects
4/29/2018, 5:39 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
spud100 Profile
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


I feel threatened, threatened, I say! I always sort of cottoned to, having this place like the Politics section on RK. I hated it when Libs shoe-horned their own Lib views, on the rest of us.

Or, even if it was post what and where you wanted to, take no prisoners; I can deal with that as well (shrug). All good.

Also, Spike -feel free to move this comment if you like it. Good too.
4/29/2018, 6:00 pm Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


quote:

I always sort of cottoned to, having this place like the Politics section on RK.



The politics section on RK was always kind of a hybrid of our NewsFlash subforum and our Netherworld Subforum. I think we should keep our NewsFlash subforum a little more civil than their politics subforum was, but allow the Netherworld subforum to be much worse. When topics in the NewsFlash subforum get too nasty, we can simply move them to the Netherworld subforum. Once there, people can really go to town and rip each other's throats out.

Any moderator can move a topic to the Netherworld. It would be nice if moderators would do it more often. Get in the habit. Make it a regular practice. Every kind of discussion can be had on this forum. Just don't wrestle in the living room or fight in the family room. Take the real brawls out behind the woodshed.

---
Spikosaur, of the Uncircumcised Umbrella, Prophet to The Collectors, OA, RMC

Hail Apostle Paul
Praise to Founder Bunny
Glory to the Objects
4/29/2018, 6:30 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


The Netherworld is not a place where people can call each other names. It is a place for way off topic subjects.

The thing we should do here is demand that participants be civil to one another. Who can disagree with that?

It's easy to implement and Spike you seem scared by the failure of MindX.

Western Civilization. Practice it.
4/29/2018, 8:38 pm Link to this post PM RedQ Blog
 
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


I did what I thought had to be done and I explained my actions. I think that from this point on in this thread I will leave it to members (including moderators) to debate the purpose and boundaries of our various subfora.

---
Spikosaur, of the Uncircumcised Umbrella, Prophet to The Collectors, OA, RMC

Hail Apostle Paul
Praise to Founder Bunny
Glory to the Objects
4/29/2018, 9:39 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


The Netherworld should be a place where you can call names, otherwise it stays in public eyes. Which is what the Politics on RK was about. Moreover, the proggies there would surely use any thread to attack. So if somebody wants to accuse, accuse, away in Netherworld.

I will move the threads there, if and when I see the personal appearing there. Otherwise calling out non-specific persons, may get a pass from me.
4/30/2018, 3:10 pm Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 
Doctor Forbin Profile
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


Execute Order 66.
5/4/2018, 6:08 pm Link to this post PM Doctor Forbin Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: Justification for Invoking Rule 14


--Log in or sign up to see linked image content--

---
Spikosaur, of the Uncircumcised Umbrella, Prophet to The Collectors, OA, RMC

Hail Apostle Paul
Praise to Founder Bunny
Glory to the Objects
5/4/2018, 7:34 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 


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