Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalism https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/t13097 Runboard| Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalism en-us Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:09:12 +0000 Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:09:12 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58212,from=rss#post58212https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58212,from=rss#post58212Well, actually, in one of the ‘Next Generation’ episodes, some boffin wants to take Data apart in order to reverse-engineer his design and create more androids like him. The boffin is pretty sure he will indeed discover how Data works but he cannot offer complete guarantees that he will be able to put Data back together again after having disassembled him. Captain Picard does not want to risk losing Data and a court case is set up to determine whether or not Data is just property belonging to the Federation rather than a person in his own right, endowed with inalienable rights like the right to life. At first, Picard’s approach is to try and argue that Data is human but since he obviously isn’t this approach is not working. Gainan points out that, throughout history there have been ‘disposable’ people, meaning those expected to do the dirty and dangerous jobs we normally don’t want to touch. If Data is mass-manufactured, this could produce a race of beings that are treated like disposable people. Picard changes tact, saying that, yes, there is no question that Data is not human. But neither is a Klingon, or a Ferengi’. We don’t think it right to enslave them, so why should it be permissible to enslave a race of androids? In order to justify this we would have to prove Data does not have a soul. But this cannot be proven, anymore than anyone can prove an autistic human who does not grasp the nuances of emotions has no soul. Or even that a person who is spectacularly adept at understanding emotions has a soul. Picard argues that Data has the right to live and to search for his soul, as does any sentient being. He is not property. Picard wins the argument, and Data is not dismantled and reverse-engineered. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Mon, 29 Jun 2020 06:00:49 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58207,from=rss#post58207https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58207,from=rss#post58207quote:Extropia DaSilva wrote: Like Data? Data is a plot device. He is the creation of a mysterious scientist that was originally assumed to be dead but turns out to merely be in hiding. Consequently, Data cannot be mass produced or improved upon. Things like that do not happen in the real world. If data actually existed, he would be well understood and there would soon be many more of him. They would be set to work creating brains and robots superior to themselves. The reason why that does not happen in Star Trek is because it would ruin the show, not because it makes logical sense. In general, things that happen in science fiction books, movies and shows are not good models for what could or would happen in real life. The need to generate drama is the nemesis of plausibility. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Mon, 29 Jun 2020 01:09:01 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58206,from=rss#post58206https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58206,from=rss#post58206Like Data?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Mon, 29 Jun 2020 00:27:44 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58119,from=rss#post58119https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58119,from=rss#post58119Data is just another example of ridiculousness. If he existed, SAI would exist, and humans could not compete. Our only hope is that SAI is subservient and docile...a super intelligent slave. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Sun, 28 Jun 2020 04:39:29 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58118,from=rss#post58118https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58118,from=rss#post58118Isn’t Data an SAI? His thought processes are incomparably faster and more accurate than a human’s. In one episode he single-handily takes over the Enterprise and there’s nothing the rest of the crew can do to prevent him because his vast intellect and ability to think a billion steps ahead allows him to easily manoeuvre himself around any attempt by the crew to take back control. Of course, Data is not superior in literally every way. He cannot feel emotions and struggles to comprehend things like humour. But according to you an SAI would be unable to feel emotions so I don’t see why Data’s honest admission that he is incapable of feeling anything should preclude him from being described as an SAI in your eyes. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Sun, 28 Jun 2020 04:28:58 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58116,from=rss#post58116https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58116,from=rss#post58116Ex, Star Trek is a logically inconsistent fantasy. It depends on suspension of disbelief to emphasize the value of certain things over others. They have FTL and the ability to simulate humans in their entirety, but no SAI. The whole scenario is ridiculous. Our real future can and will be nothing like Star Trek. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Sun, 28 Jun 2020 01:37:00 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58115,from=rss#post58115https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58115,from=rss#post58115Roddenberry would have found it impossible to depict a world without money. This is because money, strictly speaking, is a form of measurement and what it measures is relative costs and values. While it is certainly possible to do away with a physical representation of money and have a world where nobody need carry cash or credit cards, a world where nobody need calculate relative costs is never going to happen. Even in a Star-Trekky future with it’s near-magical tech there would still be the necessity to work out whether something is worth doing this way or if it would be more economical to consider alternative approaches. If Roddenberry did believe the crew of the Enterprise had no need for ‘money’, he will have made the mistake that many people make, which is to think a world without cash and a world without money is the same thing. I am not so sure Roddenberry was trying to depict a world where money is no longer necessary however. Rather, he was depicting a world where, in some cases, people have advanced beyond placing material acquisition as the very definition of success. What matters to Picard is not that his Captain’s quarters are bigger and more luxuriously appointed than anyone else’s or that he gets to swagger around in big cars spending big wads of notes on things others cannot afford. He does not derive his feelings of achievement from such things. In a world where just about any physical object can be created seemingly from thin air, using some kind of automated manufacturing process that makes even molecular nanotechnology seem like a crude way of reorganising matter, there would be little sense in deriving any feelings of superiority over having more stuff than others. However, he is ‘captain’ so this is not a communist utopia in the sense that everyone is equal both in wealth and status. Some forms of prestige still matter to Picard. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Sun, 28 Jun 2020 00:16:11 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58076,from=rss#post58076https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p58076,from=rss#post58076They had the Ferengi using some kind of gold because its so, so deeply embedded in our consciousness as money metal. The origonal Trek had Rodenberry focused on his idea of a better future. To him that meant no money, one world government... Yet commerce is so embedded in our culture, the writers occasionally came up with plotlines that included commerce anyway. It shows up on "The Trouble with Tribbles," where the Space Station Bar Owner haggles like a champ with the guy selling Tribbles. In "Mudds Women," Kirk has to deal with rough miners toughing it out "to make a bundle" digging ore dug out of a desolate, isolated planet. Another mining episode has a big, blobby "Silocone life form" interfering with the mining crew. Presumably the crew and foreman were on duty far underground on that distant planet for good bucks - but that's never gone into. Nor is the pay for the ships' crew, though I got the impression they weren't paid. In our Navy, if everybody had a good life to live as a civvie, and got no pay - it would be much, much smaller! And mining? Working as a barkeep on a distant space station? All for no pay? Every novel that comes to mind, that deals with futures, all have some kind of economic pressure pushing almost all of the characters. Only some rich folks or aristocrats feel no money pressure. The only depictions I can think of that don't are very skimpy on much detail, or depict deprivation. A cramped, small life. Folks do little more than simply work like dogs for subsistence, and noodge around trying to make what small deals they can, to get some advantage in their community. A money economy based society will be with us, probably, until the Sing, when everything will be up for grabs. nondisclosed_email@example.com (greendocnowciv)Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:29:36 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57997,from=rss#post57997https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57997,from=rss#post57997Once it is completely digital, it will become the sole ownership of the elites, who will control everything, eh? Before this happens at this point in late June, the US may be breaking into two hostile regions, largely, Pro-US versus Anti-US. In the digital zones, Silicon Valley will ally/fund with the People's Republic Party, for a while, till things crumble, which would be within two years. China may end up funding them, in return for military bases, which the People's republic This will impact the perception worldwide of the actual reliability of digital money right down to 'direct deposits.' How many electrons shall I send to the bank's servers in your account?? Money can be counterfeited, but a digital economy can be hacked, counterfeited, dumped, halted, tracked, erased, and eliminated instantly. So, paper money in an age of Star Trek? Well, in Next Generation, the Ferengi made it work with gold-pressed latinum. :-/ nondisclosed_email@example.com (spud100)Fri, 26 Jun 2020 14:23:00 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57990,from=rss#post57990https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57990,from=rss#post57990As a tool, money is sort of like the drinking cup. It does its job so well that few people give it much thought any more. Once it is completely digital, we won't have to choke any more Floyds. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:08:12 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57989,from=rss#post57989https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57989,from=rss#post57989Money is a ‘work in progress’. a ‘tool’. A cherished, horded and coveted one to be sure , but nothing more.nondisclosed_email@example.com (richiemobile)Fri, 26 Jun 2020 11:42:22 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57987,from=rss#post57987https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57987,from=rss#post57987Exty, FYI. Spikos apriori. position is omniscience. I guess it’s a strength to think you know all and see all. DJT does this and to some it is quite seductive. Not everybody however. As always I could be wrong. 😏nondisclosed_email@example.com (richiemobile)Fri, 26 Jun 2020 10:05:59 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57982,from=rss#post57982https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57982,from=rss#post57982quote:all human interactions are ‘really’ commercial exchanges. Brilliant observation. See, you are learning! nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Fri, 26 Jun 2020 08:44:42 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57977,from=rss#post57977https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57977,from=rss#post57977No, not necessarily. The people who believe this to be true assume all human interactions are ‘really’ commercial exchanges. They are wrong. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Fri, 26 Jun 2020 06:09:39 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57976,from=rss#post57976https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57976,from=rss#post57976When you remove a central planner from economics, you have capitalism. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Thu, 25 Jun 2020 23:57:01 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57975,from=rss#post57975https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57975,from=rss#post57975>Specifically, she describes some kind of central planning, but she refuses to say who the planner is.< I also refuse to say who is the central planner of evolution, and for the same reason. There is no ‘central planning’ in evolution and no central planner either. There is a computer program, of a sorts, ‘running’ evolution. As Dawkins said, “Genetics..is pure information technology. This, precisely, is why an antifreeze gene can be copied from an arctic fish and pasted into a tomato”. But where is this computer? It is distributed throughout the world. All living things are a part of it. No one living thing or group is in charge of it. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Thu, 25 Jun 2020 23:31:52 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57928,from=rss#post57928https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57928,from=rss#post57928Ex, I have no problem with somebody sharp explaining the power of money thru human collective society. I wish somebody prominent would, like Orange Dude, but he is trying to get re-elected (By the Electoral College aka Congress). This would be nice. Communism aka Soviet Socialism, nobody sane needs, it is the instrument of the paranoid and the genocidal, as evidenced, by Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot/Daddy Kim, etc. Maduro leans this way and so did the Castro's. Meanwhile, I did download Matt Ridley's Innovation but haven't started it yet. He sides with the collection of individuals acting freely, although we could behave together and coordinate our actions. Maybe its time we do this?? Spike, I am looking for no perfect system, just an improved one. Right now, when I do groceries, I always wear a mask, but this sucks, so I went and spent on a Copperfit one to see if there's an improvement in glasses fogging up? In the US we have all lost ground and time due to the Chicomm Flu, so I'd first like a world where we no longer have to suit up. Talk about going down a rung or 3 on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. :-( nondisclosed_email@example.com (spud100)Thu, 25 Jun 2020 17:09:04 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57900,from=rss#post57900https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57900,from=rss#post57900Spud, all you will get from Ex on this topic is platitudes. Specifically, she describes some kind of central planning, but she refuses to say who the planner is. She is offering nothing more than communism. That is all her hero Peter Joseph is offering. There is nothing more to it. It is the same old commie song with a slightly different orchestral arrangement. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Thu, 25 Jun 2020 10:14:19 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57892,from=rss#post57892https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57892,from=rss#post57892>I would like more substantial proposals than "Money! Bad!< The problem with money is not that it is ‘bad’, but rather that so few people actually understand it. And the reason why so few understand it is because mainstream economic theory promotes psuedohistorical accounts of its origins that result either in State populism or Market populism, depending on which bogus account of its origins you read. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Thu, 25 Jun 2020 05:47:19 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57835,from=rss#post57835https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57835,from=rss#post57835Ex is not J D Searle's Chinese Room. They quotation that Spike produced was from Tallyrand who said of the Bourbon's, "“They had learned nothing and forgotten nothing.” https://www.staugustine.net/blogs/rectify-names-a-blog-on-publishing/e2809cthey-had-learned-nothing-and-forgotten-nothinge2809d-march-11-2013/ Ex, has some interesting proposals, yet I would like more substantial proposals than "Money! Bad!" which, of course it is especially, via politics as we learn every day in the States. I would advise all to hearken unto the minds like Matt Ridley, and Bjorn Lomborg for sage advice on the economy. Also, please push engineering improvements to the top of your intellectual Bucket List, for observations about the future, the economy. Because, from my perspective, 2020 is like 1970 with cell phones (mobiles for Ex) and Pads, and SurfacePro's. I don't agree with Lomborg on climate, but I like his observations nevertheless. https://www.lomborg.com/ Matt Ridley is more along the lines that Ex will approve of. He has a book for me that is downloadable now! In a few hours it goes on sale in the UK!! Weird huh? http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/ nondisclosed_email@example.com (spud100)Wed, 24 Jun 2020 15:06:05 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57806,from=rss#post57806https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57806,from=rss#post57806I expect flat-earthers would also accuse me of being overly bookish and ignorant after I pointed out why they are as wrong as you are. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Wed, 24 Jun 2020 05:37:18 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57726,from=rss#post57726https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57726,from=rss#post57726You have heard and read everything and understood nothing. You are a Chinese Room! nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Tue, 23 Jun 2020 01:30:02 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57724,from=rss#post57724https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57724,from=rss#post57724I don’t feel like I need to watch your video. I have read Archie Brown’s ‘The Rise And Fall of Communism’. I have read F.A Hayek’s ‘The Road To Serfdom’. I have read Ayn Rand’s ‘The Virtues of Selfishness’, ‘The Fountain Head’ and ‘Atlas Shrugged. I have watched several lectures by Jordan Peterson on the topic of post-modernism and neo-Marxism. I have watched Stefan Molyneux’s vlog about the life, philosophy and political ideology of both Karl Marx and Ayn Rand. Oh and I watched a feature-length documentary about the rise and fall of Communism in Russia. And I haven’t just read and listened to critics attacking Leftist views but have also listened to what pro-Marxist commentators have to say as well. So I don’t consider myself to be in any way ignorant about the theory, history and controversy of Socialism. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Tue, 23 Jun 2020 00:10:00 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57663,from=rss#post57663https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57663,from=rss#post57663quote: the phenomenon of digital Utopianism Yeah...well...we've got one of those going on Capitol Hill here in Seattle. Three people shot this weekend. You should watch the documentary on socialism. They say all the same things you do and sound just like Peter Joseph. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Mon, 22 Jun 2020 11:17:07 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57652,from=rss#post57652https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57652,from=rss#post57652I have told you before that NLRBE is not socialism. If you want to put forward an objection that could possibly be valid, you should watch the documentaries by Adam Curtis that look into the phenomenon of digital Utopianism such as the idea in the early 90s that the Internet represented an entirely new society that existing power structures had no authority over. The ways in which the actual internet evolved into something quite different to this imagined ideal society could maybe be similar to how an attempted NLRBE would actually turn out. I am not saying this is necessarily a valid criticism to throw at somebody who thinks NLRBE is the solution but at least things like ‘the Declearation of Internet Independence’ or whatever it was called seems compatible with NLRBE. ‘Socialism’, on the other hand, is like the opposite of what an NLRBE sets out to be and anyone who thinks they have anything in common is ignorant or just trolling. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Mon, 22 Jun 2020 05:35:51 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57651,from=rss#post57651https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57651,from=rss#post57651quote:NLRBE now! No, not ever. Here, watch this and you'll understand why: https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/t13142nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Mon, 22 Jun 2020 03:49:06 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57649,from=rss#post57649https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57649,from=rss#post57649Micro-credit gets mentioned in ‘Debt: The First 5000 Years’. “By the 1990s, the same tensions had begun to appear on a global scale, as the older penchant for loaning money for grandiose, state-directed projects like the Aswan Dam gave way to an emphasis on microcredit. Inspired by the success of the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh, the new model was to identify budding entrepreneurs in poor communities and provide them with low-interest loans. During her time in Cairo, Elyacher witnessed young of an NGO training program go on strike for their right to receive start-up loans. At the same time, just about everyone involved took it for granted that most of their fellow students, not to mention everyone else, was corrupt and exploiting the system as their personal cash cow. Here, too, aspects of economic life that had been based on longstanding relations of trust were, through the intrusion of credit bureaucracies, becoming effectively criminalised. Within another decade, the entire project- even in South Asia where it began-began to appear suspiciously similar to the US mortgage subprime: all sorts of unscrupulous lenders piled in, all sorts of deceptive appraisals were passed off to investors, interest accumulated, borrowers tried to collectively refuse payment, lenders began sending in goons to seize what little wealth they had (corrugated tin roofs, for example), and the end result has been an epidemic of suicides by poor farmers caught in traps from which their families could never possibly escape”. All quite predictable given the fundamentals of capitalism. NLRBE now!nondisclosed_email@example.com (Extropia DaSilva)Mon, 22 Jun 2020 01:12:45 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57644,from=rss#post57644https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57644,from=rss#post57644Ex, you should watch this: https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/t13142 It will be embarrassing because they practically paraphrase your most eloquent points. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Spikosauropod)Sun, 21 Jun 2020 22:08:31 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57608,from=rss#post57608https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57608,from=rss#post57608The Amazon linked site shows that the author pioneered microcredit loans. Those were a great innovation that I read about a few years ago due to a link from a KIA post. In an age of tightening credit for those with little equity, they allow those with micro equity or almost none, to get small but highly impactful loans so that they can get a specific type of farm going, or shop going, or well and plumbing installed and a million other development starts that can lead to more and more. Many financial innovations work because they allow some new kind of business to succeed by supplying it with needed starting and continuation capital. Other innovations - like a lot of Fed Regulation being eliminated - resulted in a fantastic economy before the Wu-Flu got us and so many others to shut down our own economies. Any ideas he has that can use business to help people would be a great addition to many, many other business that help people. So good luck to this guy with his new idea, who has already done much good with his ideas in the past.   nondisclosed_email@example.com (greendocnowciv)Sun, 21 Jun 2020 20:05:53 +0000 Re: Building Social Business: The New Kind of Capitalismhttps://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57443,from=rss#post57443https://bescapevelocity.runboard.com/p57443,from=rss#post57443Rich is from Iowa and says nothing about the old CO-OP stores? nondisclosed_email@example.com (spud100)Fri, 19 Jun 2020 07:36:54 +0000