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Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Registered: 12-2017
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


I am not to mention climate change, huh? Ok, I won’t mention climate change.

That graph claims that ‘as carbon dioxide increases it has less warming effect’. You that plants grow better without CO2 and die without it’.

If this were true one would assume that the more CO2 there was, the better conditions would be for plants. Well, Venus’ atmosphere is 98 percent carbon dioxide, which is certainly a great deal more than Earth’s 0.03 percent, but last time I checked Venus was not far more carpeted in vegetation than our planet is.

What it does have, though, is soaring temperatures. The average surface temperature of Venus is four hundred and seventy seven degrees centigrade, which I believe is the highest temperature in the solar system even though Mercury is a lot closer to the Sun. It’s unanimous amongst the scientific community that Venus is such a hellish place because of the greenhouse effect caused by all that carbon dioxide.

‘Greenhouse effect’ is of course another word for global warming.

I don’t distinguish between strongman governments and commercial markets, so my point about the aliens still stands.
1/23/2020, 1:14 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
RedQ Profile
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


Absurd. It is the logical fallacy of the 'appeal to extremes'. Co2 absorbs heat but the thick cloudy atmosphere has a much to do with Venus. Venus environment is very different from Earth, and both are stable but at different end points:

quote:

The atmosphere of Venus allows the light from the Sun to pass through the clouds and down to the surface of the planet, which warms the rocks. But then the infrared heat from the warmed rocks is prevented from escaping by the clouds, and so the planet warmed up. https://www.universetoday.com/47905/why-is-venus-so-hot/



Note, the principal greenhouse gas on Earth is water vapor.

"That graph claims . . ." The graph claims nothing. It is just illustrates the science of absorption and saturation. Titrate black stain into a beaker of water. The beaker will become translucent and getting darker with the more black stain. But eventually, it will be black and adding more stain won't make it any blacker. That's called saturation. The Earth's atmosphere is for practical purposes saturated now with Co2, as illustrated in the graph. It's not that hard to understand if you're not wearing blinders (which you are).

"You that plants grow better without CO2 and die without it’." That's not a claim, it is also a fact. Greenhouses routinely pump up Co2 to 1000-1500 ppm to induce growth. I included some examples in my article that I've linked.

Your motivation is emotional and political ideology, not science. You're simply in love with the idea that capitalism is killing Mother Gaia.
1/23/2020, 8:39 am Link to this post PM RedQ Blog
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


And just about every person who denies that pumping 50 billion tons of pollutants into the atmosphere on a yearly basis is having detrimental environmental effects, is a right-wing nutjob who will not accept that runaway consumerism is putting an unsustainable strain on the Earth’s ecosystems.

At least that is the conclusion I have drawn from my afternoon watching videos YouTube found after I searched under ‘global warming is a lie’, ‘and global warming is a hoax’.

The one exception was a former Greenpeace member who grew skeptical with the Movement because of its changing stance from seeing humans as something that needs protecting to something dangerous to this planet. I thought his talk struck the same reasonable tone as that ‘Skeptical Environmentalist” book I read which makes a good case for productive capitalism to solve this potential crisis just like many other potential environmental problems have been addressed.

But even he did what all the deniers in those videos do, which was to present incomprehensible data and then tell people what it means. I certainly could not have worked out that this was contrary climate date without them telling me this was what it was.

In contrast when I then watched lectures from climate change supporters, their evidence and graphs required very little explanation. Anyone can work out what a temperature graph staggering up and up and up right in recent decades means.

1/23/2020, 11:06 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
RedQ Profile
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


Please link what you consider the 'best' global warming video that explains it all with "evidence and graphs [that] required very little explanation. Anyone can work out what a temperature graph staggering up and up and up right in recent decades means."
1/23/2020, 11:19 am Link to this post PM RedQ Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Registered: 06-2007
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


No comparison can be made with Venus because the atmospheric pressure is 90 times that of earth. One would expect that with Co2 that is 2500 times that of earth Venus would be so hot the atmosphere would boil off. Yet, curiously, the temperature remains stable.

It is interesting to see the convoluted arguments Gaia worshippers will resort to in order to maintain their position:

Is the CO2 effect saturated?

She tries to create the impression that what she is about to say is simple and straight-forward, but then she gets to a complete non-sequitur:

quote:

The colder the air, the less heat it radiates. So if we add more greenhouse gases the air needs to be thinner before heat radiation is able to escape to space. So this can only happen higher in the atmosphere. Where it is colder. So the amount of heat escaping is reduced.


After that, she declares the argument won and disappears.
1/23/2020, 11:52 am Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
RedQ Profile
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


Little Miss Mythbuster says on the third "advanced" tab (there are basic, intermediate and advanced tabs) that she takes all of this from Spencer Weart. I debunked Weart years ago. More importantly, he made an appearance on Prof. Lubos Motl website where he was ridiculed and ran off by Motl and his band of physicist followers. Motl is a string theorist that was a Harvard professor. He sided with Larry Summer (then president of Harvard College) when Summer's crossed the PC establishment (said weren't as many women in science because they weren't attracted to it, not that they were discriminated against). For good measure, the PC crowd ran off Motl, too.

I can post the articles from KAI, but they are a little complicated. Basically what Lil' Miss Mythbuster doesn't understand is that most of the energy absorbed by Co2 is not transferred by reemission, but by collisions, which causes the energy to be remitted in wavelength bands not absorbed by Co2.
1/23/2020, 1:20 pm Link to this post PM RedQ Blog
 
spud100 Profile
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


Yet facts will force a CHANGE OF VIEW BECAUSE-

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2018/09/27/a-global-tipping-point-half-the-world-is-now-middle-class-or-wealthier/

The teaching of hating the middle class is cause for retaliation from said, middle class upon all aggressors, rich or street soviet.
1/23/2020, 8:30 pm Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


It should be pointed out that there is clear proof that climate-change deniers are liars and fabricators of evidence.

This proof comes in the form of the ‘climategate scandal’ which they claimed revealed a conspiracy to fake data supporting climate change, but which has since been revealed as nothing of the sort. So we now know to be wary in trusting these propagandists and their ‘facts’.

Having said that I did find one climate-skeptic video which seemed persuasive. This one took issue with the claim that 97 percent of scientists agree that climate change is really happening and showed (quite convincingly, I thought) how this is an exaggerated figure more or less made up through manipulation of the figures.

The conclusion of that video was that there is agreement that mankind probably has some kind of influence on the climate and that there will be consequences, but there’s not much consensus on how bad that it could be. If this is true (like I said it convinced me) then Extinction Rebellion are liars in saying ‘we’re doomed’ if we don’t act fast.

It’s also worth remembering that ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are relative terms that are meaningless without a reference. In the case of climate change ‘bad’ compared to what? Maybe it wouldn’t be ‘bad’ compared to the negative effects of abandoning all fossil fuels by 2025 Which might have comparatively worse outcomes for people’s lives.

1/24/2020, 3:10 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


It should be pointed out that Gaia worshipers are liars as evidenced by the climate scandal...which did in fact occur and has been documented.
1/24/2020, 10:57 am Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
spud100 Profile
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Re: A looming unease with how Capitalism is operating at Davos


The important thing to be aware of is that the governments of the EU have nothing ready to go, so that we can shut down fossil fuel reliance, for transport, for power, for industrial processes.

I peruse the news daily, specifically about energy and though there are things that seem to be ready to move as a replacement, the Red Greens who complain and Virtue Signal, have done little. For instance in the UK, if one is in favor of wind power at sea, they haven't enough in place or ready to install new, to make a difference.
1/24/2020, 12:31 pm Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 


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