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Parliamentarian

Registered: 06-2007
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Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


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https://singularityhub.com/2018/05/24/is-it-moral-to-seek-immortality-a-discussion-at-the-vatican/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
5/24/2018, 11:02 am Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
spud100 Profile
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Moderator

Registered: 12-2017
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


Think of your children living as young people for centuries. Is it moral? I choose to use the world ethical, because moral, in the West means, given by a God, whereas ethical is simply how humans treat each other, God, or no.

So, your kids working on large scale colonization projects out to the Stars is an immoral thing? I think not.
5/24/2018, 1:49 pm Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


I urge all who feel that way to feel free to die at their leisure, presumably a natural course, as most of our traditional, western world religions eschew suicide.

This seems like a self solving debate, over a quite reasonable span of time.
5/24/2018, 3:33 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Parliamentarian

Registered: 06-2007
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


Eternal life is incompatible with quantum mechanics. A very long life is just a lot more time. I don't think any rational person will argue that it is immoral. Like you say, those who do will not be around long to push their argument.
5/24/2018, 3:53 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


Here here! And your point about eternity is one that could be debated for centuries.

A prep would be to download and fully incorporate all known physics. From our popularly written physics articles some views are that something like dimensional travel may be possible.

If not for a person is a "time capsule" or "dimensional travel pod," then for an information pulse sent into some kind of psychics experimental field that would bounce it back instantly in the theoretical time duration in the experimental field.

That time would be on the other side of an anticipated...blah blah.

We got centuries to actually work that out. And our AI parts of our brains will make our insight so insightful! Intel inside and all.
5/24/2018, 7:06 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
Spikosauropod Profile
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Parliamentarian

Registered: 06-2007
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


quote:

your point about eternity is one that could be debated for centuries.



It could even be debated for millennia...or...what comes next...do we have a name for it?

This gets to a question I raised earlier. Is there really any difference between a trillion years and eternity? If you lived every day for 1,000,000,000,000 years, would you ever really get to the end? No one seems to get what I mean by this.

However, it is theoretically impossible for anything to last for eternity. Quantum randomness would eventually tear it apart. Given enough time, a structure that has remained intact long enough would, through sheer quantum randomness, simply disintegrate. It might take 10^10000000000000000000 years, but it would eventually happen.
5/24/2018, 7:52 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


Spike,

"...it is theoretically impossible for anything to last for eternity."

Yes, the eternity issue is yours, for shores.

And no, thats not quite it for me. A massive choice - a two-fer, or "turtles."

That, expanded:

Two-fer:

My sci fi-ish rambling toward the end of the prior post included that, whatever happens per our ideas, we have either a rebounding creation cycle of repeated big bangs and big collapses...

or essentially, over time, an expansion and heat death, however that is described.

"Turtles":

Is the end of that eternity quantum foam forever? Or a literal eternity of pieces coming apart into smaller pieces.

"All the way down?"
~~~~~~~~~

I ask this from curiosity if you know any such theory well enough to spoon-feed it for me.

I dont have a thought that "wait! You're cutting my eternity short!" or something.

I actually am not emotionally fixated on making LE Bridge two, which I bring up a lot.

I really get a kick out of it! I do seriously want it.

Mainly because I have thought LE would be cool for a long time, ever since finding it in sci fi as child.

After decades of imagining LE due to authors discussing it in different ways, and my own later consideration of it, I truly dont have that hunger for it that I have read described in a few stories, or discussed in other print.

I have seen relatives die, loved and not, and others, and certainly dont want to. But I know with certainty from circumstances I wont bother with, its not a horror to me. I have also seen clear examples of average guys for whom it is not a fearful thing, and many older folks who dont fear death.

The idea sometimes presented that there is this massive "death fear" out there is overblown, I think. I'm sure it does exist in some mass, but a smaller mass than some think.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So truly, asking about the forever thing, just curious.

I go for that answer, because as I already noted in the prior post, I thought that some of the various physics ideas we have had presented suggest something after we get close to the "end" of each new description of reality.

That "something" being to some degree described, or just left as: "We dunno after that point. So mebbe something."

Or is our cutting edge perspective now properly paraphrased such that:

"After one zillion plus one, we are sure we have nothing forever."



5/25/2018, 5:58 am Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
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Parliamentarian

Registered: 06-2007
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


Doc, to my knowledge, there is no current consensus as to which cosmological model is correct. I find it interesting that the belief the universe will last only about 5 billion more years has gained some prominence:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/10/101027-science-space-universe-end-of-time-multiverse-inflation/

Last edited by Spikosauropod, 5/25/2018, 4:27 pm
5/25/2018, 4:25 pm Link to this post PM Spikosauropod
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


Also - a point about your idea about millenia subjectively in one day for one person has been around, if thats what you earlier were posting about as "nobody gets me."

"If you lived every day for 1,000,000,000,000 years, would you ever really get to the end? No one seems to get what I mean by this."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I got a kick out of a version of that long ago, from being introduced to it by its use in Sci Fi.

It was described with much shorter stretches of slowed time turned on and off as a handy "enhancement" ability in a Sci Fi story or two. The person would use the time to ponder options, learn a skill, etc.

Isaac Arthur, the mildly speech-impedimented science and future stuff 'splainer who got popular with me and others for a while back at KAI - in one of his vids, he went into this as a mental talent we will probably get with brain augments.

Cool! Seems very handy.
5/27/2018, 11:20 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
ProfessorFalken Profile
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Registered: 12-2017
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Re: Is It Moral to Seek Immortality?


If you're a Christian or have faith in any other religion that believes in heaven and hell then you should not dodge judgement. Up till now death has been an inevitable fate. But singularitarian technology allows a path to evade death, to evade gods judgement. Any true believer that utilizes technology to live eterenally without facing Gods judgement is a sinner. they are cheating God. They are scum. They are evil. They are filth. Only a true Christian, that is devout and pure and has accepted the love of Christ will be honest enough to die when their time comes.

Last edited by ProfessorFalken, 5/28/2018, 10:45 am
5/28/2018, 10:45 am Link to this post PM ProfessorFalken Blog
 


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