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luciddream00 Profile
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Registered: 04-2018
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


quote:


Two wrongs don't make a right, but three do.


So you think it is wrong for businesses to take advantage of every legal opportunity that they have to reduce their tax burden? Most of the people I talked to on the Right were quite defensive about Trump taking advantage of the loopholes in the tax code. I believe the line I heard frequently (and that I actually agree with) is "nobody should pay a penny more in taxes than they are legally required to." Businesses are opportunistic, which is why we need real tax reform that closes loopholes and forces businesses to pay their fair share because they won't if they can possibly get away with it.

If you want to hold Amazon to a higher standard than is currently legally required, then lobby your congressmen to change the law, don't whine about Amazon playing the game by the same rules as everyone else.

quote:

We do it obama's way; you send one of ours to the hospital, we send one of yours to the morgue.


What does this even mean? How is this relevant at all to the discussion?

Last edited by luciddream00, 5/21/2018, 8:56 am


---
Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
5/21/2018, 8:45 am Link to this post PM luciddream00 Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


lucid,

"...Trump games the system.."

You linked those three words. The linked article only clued anyone into this:

Pres Trump hires tax accountants and tax lawyers who specialize in his major activity, realty development. They earn their high costs to him by showing him a way to legally benefit from a huge large dollar amount loss he experiences in one specific time period. His accountants and tax lawyers let him effectively "bank" those losses.

And then use those losses to cancel out tax debt. Thus, taxes for him are canceled for a time period of several years, not just the same year or the following year.

The fact that pre-Candidate Trump had this episode, and a stretch of years of benefiting in that way in his past - that whole thing being seen as a scandal for most people is long past.

Only some of us even remember that from the last Pres Campaign, when he crushed Hillary.

That is the sum and substance of the info from your link. The article "framed" that situation as "Trump is a bad actor - see, here is an example."

That "blame Trump framework" related to that tax issue failed to be used effectively against him in the last election.

Yet you feel that it is a "counter-weight" in some way to Jeff, here and now?

Why?

I, and apparently you, and also many others don't see anything that needs to be "counter-weighted." Many besides myself dont feel that Jeff is a bad actor.

Nor has anyone shown why what "long pre-Pres" Trump did with his tax accountant and tax lawyer was wrong.

The problem for Jeff is not whether either of us likes or dislikes him, but rather that there are many - many many many - State tax revenue folks who always want more tax revenue.

And the Amazon issue has been with many of them for years. A bee in the ol' bonnet.

Jeff is either the worlds richest man today, or was some time during this month. This fact of him being the glittering .0000001% richee, well, to any given one of these tax-greed-heads - he just oughta pay more. "Just because."

They are the soul-brothers of the elite tax-greed-heads in Seattle. Both see Jeff, and want his stuff.

The Seattle crew and the larger number of State tax revenue officials and others in those States who have been at this fight, off-and-on for years, are kind-of like a pack of wolves that are after Jeff with real feeling.

Many of the members of what I am calling a wolfpack after Bezos have a similar, unreal view of Bezos as that of the tax-hungry-greedheads in Seattle.

They all may fall into the "Seattle Zone" of ignoring the blatant, legal reality of what Bezos can "get away with," and will want more than the 50% they get now.

Like any group of "Occupy" vagrants, or angry, masked Antifa thugs, they are free to try to make their reality "real in the world."

But the comparable issue you raise - the "Trump Tax Issue" - beyond that many dont even remember it, it was merely one of many accusations Pres Trump faced in what is known to some as "Hillarys Doomed Campaign" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JssGugB43zM&t=2s

And Jeff? I am on the other side of his very public political stance. Regardless, more power to him as he wages his legal and merchandising war in the still - happily - competitive marketplace.

He can definitely defend what he has been doing, and keeps doing as an e-retailer, and I and most conservo's will agree with him.

And Pres Trump and their conflict? Ex Presidents Obama and "W" and Clinton and Reagan and on and on - we have many examples of Presidents who pushed the envelope of how a Pres can push into the market and try to tell peeps what to do. Some success, some failure - resulting from lots of effort from lots of Presidents.

Pres Trump vs Bezos! Get your popcorn and drink of choice ready and settle in. Hard to see how this will turn.
5/21/2018, 9:23 am Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
luciddream00 Profile
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


quote:

Pres Trump hires tax accountants and tax lawyers who specialize in his major activity, realty development. They earn their high costs to him by showing him a way to legally benefit from a huge large dollar amount loss he experiences in one specific time period.



Bezos hires tax accountants and tax lawyers who specialize in his major activity. They earn their high costs to him by showing him a way to minimize his tax burdens.

quote:


Nor has anyone shown why what "long pre-Pres" Trump did with his tax accountant and tax lawyer was wrong.



Correct, because it isn't wrong. Neither is Amazon wrong by minimizing their tax burdens through legal means.

quote:


The problem for Jeff is not whether either of us likes or dislikes him, but rather that there are many - many many many - State tax revenue folks who always want more tax revenue.


Once again, Amazon now collects state tax in every state that requires it (45 of them). By comparison, Trump's online store only pays state tax to 4 states.

Trump is attacking Amazon because Bezos also owns the Washington Post. We all know that to be the truth. It has nothing to do with Amazon's business practices, and everything to do with the fact that he is petty and bitter.

I actually find it quite shocking that we have a supposedly "pro business" president that spends his time attacking one of the most successful businesses in America for personal reasons.

Last edited by luciddream00, 5/21/2018, 9:43 am


---
Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
5/21/2018, 9:35 am Link to this post PM luciddream00 Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


lucid,

You note several things in direct agreement with things I posted immediately before.

Thanks for the endorsement!

Then you add an odd point at the end:

That "we all know" that Pres Trump is attacking Bezos because Bezos owns WaPo, and that for some reason he just wants to attack a prosperous capitalist success story biz.


To try to put your idea of the Bezos-Trump antagonism into a sensible sentence for me - not better for all, or that you were wrong in your phrasing, now. Just to try to "wrap my head around it" - I see it like this:

The Dems and libbos, including almost all US media, and all PC leaders of many countries attack Pres Trump constantly, and have done so now for a couple of years.

Then Bezos trumps the anti-"Trumpness" of most other Anti-Trump PC CEOs. He goes ahead and buys an already pro-Dem, anti-Trump paper.

And like many type A, extroverted very libbo CEOs, ol' Jeff is already very overtly Dem supporting - gee, I guess that "we all know" that Jeff is doing to attack Pres Trump.

And I reckon that "we all know" that when a guy - say a type A, extroverted very "Ross Perot-ish Reform Party" type of long-time successful Billionaire developer - feels attacked, a fight or flight reflex tends to be activated.

Gee, I wonder which of those two responses are likely to kick in with either of these big shots?

Well, shocker - Pres Trump and Jeff both have verbally taken shots at each other, and both react pretty much as "we all know" such guys would.

And Jeff has dug into twitter just like Pres Trump. And like so many of his fellow PC CEO's, they have their little feud going on - at least we can imagine that they do, and say "we all know."

But of course, the more accurate thing to say would be that "many believe that..." a given thing in every usage where I used "we all know."
5/21/2018, 12:39 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
luciddream00 Profile
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


The president shouldn't be attacking one of the most successful companies in America because he has a personal disagreement with the owner. If you disagree on that point then we might as well agree to disagree because we aren't going to find a middle ground.

---
Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
5/21/2018, 3:33 pm Link to this post PM luciddream00 Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


I am still curious about this, though.

There are two aspects to the Trump - Bezos issue.

1) Man to man, and (2) Pres to biz.

Man to man:

It appears to be your view that it is wrong for one American citizen to respond to vitriol, with vitriol. That is, it is wrong if he is President. If so, just "take it."

If that is your view, then I think I understand. A simple double standard.

Pres to biz:

I noted already - we have long tradition of our Presidents pushing into the economy and telling businesses what to do. This isn't the most extreme of those examples, and we will see if it is viewed overall as good or bad, right or wrong.
5/21/2018, 4:52 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
luciddream00 Profile
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Registered: 04-2018
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


quote:

It appears to be your view that it is wrong for one American citizen to respond to vitriol, with vitriol. That is, it is wrong if he is President. If so, just "take it."



The president is more than welcome to whine on twitter about the Washington Post, but he is attempting to use his power to harm Amazon's business because he disagrees with an unrelated business owned by the same person.

He is abusing his power as president to settle personal grudges, and if you think that is alright then we have nothing more to discuss on the topic.

Last edited by luciddream00, 5/21/2018, 4:56 pm


---
Account closed permanently. I won't stand for abuse of authority by forum administration to censor criticism of a conservative radio host that celebrated the death of AIDS patients on his show. Maybe some day we'll speak again elsewhere.
5/21/2018, 4:55 pm Link to this post PM luciddream00 Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Registered: 11-2017
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


I accept your "closure" statement - the first I have ever gotten from a guy, but hey, like Canadian PM Trudeau says: "...its 2018."
5/21/2018, 9:17 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: Trump tries to attack Amazon and Jeff Bezos through the postal rates


Ah, ‘good old’ Jeff Bezos and Amazon eh?

Amazon has been an astounding success and no mistake. Apparently, it is set to become the first company to garner a $1 trillion market. Unsurprisingly, it has also helped make its founder rich, rich rich. It says here in this newspaper article I have handy that ‘good old’ Jeff is worth $131 billion.

$131 billion.

One might be forgiven for supposing that such a wealthy company and such a rich man would have the capital handy to provide its staff with excellent working conditions and recompense for their labours. But this is not what investigative journalism has found. Undercover reporters speak of a grim working environment, with near-impossible deadlines, severe punishment for even the tiniest of infractions, toilets placed so far away you have to sacrifice your entire break just to reach one, and most damning of all, wages so low Amazon staff have to rely on food stamps and charity just to make ends meet.

Meanwhile all good old Jeff can think to do with his money is piss it away on some space program!

How about rewarding the folks who earned your money before playing rocket man, Jeff??

I would not say Amazon fulfilment centres are the worst working environment ever. After all there was the Burma Railway. And the Gulags. I guess Jeff can’t expect to be number one at everything!
5/22/2018, 1:26 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 


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