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spud100 Profile
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Robots turn everyone communists!


The more I hear these elites over the years, the more I suspect it's crap! My contention is that when you see physical laborers robots at work sites-then we can talk.
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4/15/2018, 5:58 pm Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 
greendocnowciv Profile
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Re: Robots turn everyone communists!


Spud,

As I am sure you know,the UK and US both have education establishments forcing some schools and pressuring many other schools to hire teachers from special teachers colleges.

Those colleges pump out loonier, more PC teachers each term.

That, not Robots, is what is turning us more Commie over time.

One of our real pluses from Pres Trump is him getting Betsy DeVos as our Ed Sec.

The Dems and teachers unions hate her.

Ooooh. Feels good!
4/15/2018, 10:18 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
spud100 Profile
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Re: Robots turn everyone communists!


Like all addicts-
Power Addicts are good with whatever they do-
Till it doesn't work anymore.
4/16/2018, 12:20 am Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 
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Spud,

Yes, in Education they hold mucho power and for many decades.

Until we get Betsy going and aimed true.

Are there too many of them, is it possible to win this battle for us?

I like the response of an anonymous Marine on Wake Island who was one of several who had been left behind when our forces had to bug out after the Imperial Japanese made a big attack, including landing many troops.

We knew some of our Marines were left behind there in the rushed confusion. They had no outside support, and our leadership didnt know if they were still alive, caught, barely holding on, or what.

We got in touch with them at one point and asked what they needed. I smile and get a little emotional just typing this.

It was something like -

"Yes. Send us more Japanese. And more bullets."

So sure, these libbo's might enjoy power and corrupting our kids. Our side just won a big battle and relaxed and enjoyed it as the Pres and his team in DC took lots of hits and made some goals.

Our history shows we know how to fight.

There's no reason at all to think these schmucks are going to win.

Simply that if the Dems get in, their chances rise. So, yes, we will fight.

4/16/2018, 1:25 am Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
Extropia DaSilva Profile
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Re: Robots turn everyone communists!


If robots follow the same evolutionary trajectory as computers (from cumbersome, difficult-to-work-with, expensive, limited-capability machines to cheap, swift, easy-to-use, multi-capable assistants) then robots should lead to communism because the means of production should by then have evolved into production by the masses. This requires a different organisational structure to mass production. Mass production works best when people are organised into fascist hierarchies with their clear lines of authority. Production by the masses works best when people are organised into cooperative networks. This will look more like what communists invisaged before certain cults of personality (Stalinism, Maoism etc) corrupted idea of ‘communism’.

 
4/16/2018, 11:47 am Link to this post PM Extropia DaSilva Blog
 
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Re: Robots turn everyone communists!


Extro,

Your post describes the end-zone of the field. Yes, sure, abundance is in fact what Marx described as his communist future of capitalism.

We are still, today, much closer to the other end.

Sure, automation's making amazing strides, but there's still so much room to run. Most of the field, in fact.

Lots of work and pain before we reach the goal.

Our periodic UBI discussions got into the nitty gritty in the past, of how to pay for this or that. The time of abundance that we will see in the end zone - someday, not tomorrow - will solve all that.

But the robots that are "coming for our jobs?" For the future we can see right now, they will simply bring unemployement for lots of peeps.

Part of what got Pres Trump elected was some feeling in many long-term unemployed who used to have good, manual labor jobs and now felt dismissed by our Dems.

They had been long dismissed, in truth, by both the Dems and the Repubs.

It was simply the Dems misfortune to have a spokeswoman blurt it out baldly in discussing the generic issue of mass job loss of manual laborers relating to coal jobs, during a staged meeting with a bunch of out-of-work coal workers.

She stated it something close to "we will destroy a bunch of coal jobs, wont we, Tim" - referring there in an aside to an anguished Senator Tim Kaine.

Kaine, who is a very experienced and good campaigner with a natural feel for a crowd, must have at that moment been hurting, not with emotive empathy for the miners - no, for himself, as he realized just how incompetent his "leader" was.

Indeed. To be clinical, her argument merely expressed one of many ways a national leadership can try to manage changing economic times. Here is another:

"Buried in an otherwise humdrum jobs report for March was the jaw-dropping pronouncement by the Labor Department that mining jobs in America were up by 11,000 in March.

Since the low point in October 2016 and following years of painful layoffs in the mining industry, the mining sector has added 35,000 jobs.

What a turnaround. It comes at a time when liberals have been saying that Donald Trump has been lying to the American people when he has said that he can bring coal jobs back. Well, so far he has.

There’s more good news for the coal industry. Earlier this month Peabody Coal — America’s largest coal producer — moved out of bankruptcy and its stock is actively trading again. Its market capitalization had sunk by almost 90 percent during the Obama years. Arch Coal is also out of bankruptcy.

It turns out that elections do have consequences after all. Regime change in Washington has brought King Coal back to life since late 2016 when coal production had fallen by almost half from its peak.

The Obama administration and its allies like the Sierra Club tried to kill coal because of its hyper-obsession with global warming.

President Trump pledged to coal miners in small towns across America — in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, West Virginia and Wyoming — that he would be a friend to American coal and fossil fuels.

As promised, Mr. Trump has lifted the so-called Clean Power Plant regulations and several other Environmental Protection Agency rules that were intentionally designed to kill coal jobs (and thousands more in related industries like trucking and steel) and shutter coal plants, which it accomplished with ruthless precision.

Hillary Clinton had promised her green allies that she would finish off every last coal-mining job in America.

The coal miners weren’t too happy about this, and her arrogant disregard for a leading American industry that hires tens of thousands of union workers contributed to her losses in almost all the coal states — many of which were once reliably Democratic."

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As we consider that its a long way down the field before we get to abundance, and lots of workers in many nations will be displaced -

Whadda we do?

Obviously, the NORK "Juche" idea is nuts.

We tried a closer to "Free Market globalist" approach with NAFTA than we had ever had since WW II - and ended up impoverishing many Yanks, and benefiting many middle and upper income Yanks.

The formerly middle and lower middle income manual laborers were written off by many of both parties in the US as "the cost of progress."

The NORK Juche alternative was the kind of argument used at the time, and public discussion was as narrow as it is in our US main media now, and almost all of Europes' media.

In the UK and EU, the net is a tiny alternative along with a small but real Conservo media in the UK. Vainishingly small in the EU.

The net has a much larger consrvo, alterantive to main media voice in the US, with a small but strong Conservo main media presense in the US that did not exist when NAFTA started.

That has given those dispossessed Yanks some recognition, now that they have given Pres Trump his victory. Now all media is aware of the blue collar former Dems who are now Trump voters.

Democracy and its fight for votes is finding some succor for the dispossessed, somewhere "this side" of Juche. With a more open discussion, we can debate more and not just accept arguments based on extreme examples.

We will get to the end zone and make that goal, Exty. But while we struggle down the field, we still have lots of hard decisions to make.




Last edited by greendocnowciv, 4/19/2018, 10:11 am
4/16/2018, 3:36 pm Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 
spud100 Profile
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Re: Robots turn everyone communists!


Technologically, there is no reason why coal cannot be totally cleaned, and no effulent at all, going into the sky. There are cost reasons-most of which have been settled by natural gas. Ex, must know that both the UK and Argentina has as much nat gas as the USA. China has twice as much!

Gas turbines are why coal plants have been phased out, nukes on perm hold, and wind is a big but sometime thing.

On economics--it breaks down to resources and the cost and plentifulness, of a resource. Tech changes this picture frequently. We might have a UBI world, IF, we can extract goodies like electricity and Goods, very cheaply.
4/16/2018, 4:47 pm Link to this post PM spud100 Blog
 
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Doing it all more cheaply means squeezing the last bit of life out of a deperate worker willing to work himself to death - or automating.

And the "humanoid robots in the fields" idea wars in every job sector with the very much more job specific shaped automation.

But we really do want something approximationg the classic humanoid for some jobs.

We are getting there! "Baxter the robot" on the assembly line is another place where the humanoid out of sci fi is still not there, but you can see it evolving, coming true.

A multi-purpose person is so hard to replace - unless we build a mech-person. Baxter!

The latest version is smaller, slimmer.

Small enough, slim enough, mobile enough to move from the assembly line to the fry-cook station?

To sweeping up the parking lot and waving that sign by the road, wearing a big Styrofoam "statue of liberty" headpeice?

Can Baxters' price drop that low? Can he get that mobile and capable?

The smallest versions of Baxter are called Sawyer -
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Not humanoid, not yet, exept in a very crude, stick figured way. No legs, a flat and very simplistic "face" and one very crooked arm.

But small enough to be very adaptable to many designed-for-human-worker workstations! The direction is clear!

It might not look like the cool humanoid robots from sci fi, but it is indeed coming for any job that "the numbers" say it can do.

And we should let it! Yank that transition band aid right off, as quick as we can!

Dont slowly peel it so that we can agonize over every individual hair pulled out by the adhesive.

Democracy will dictate fewer robots and more humans in some States, some countries.

Others will go the other way, with more more robots. It may take a generation of older and middle aged workers to "age out" of wanting to work at all to let some areas get into more automation in some sectors.
4/19/2018, 10:42 am Link to this post PM greendocnowciv Blog
 


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